 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-04-10 05:53
I've dealt with this issue for a long time and I don't really know what to do. My staccato is fine usually. I have problems with simply initiating pitches around the B5-C5 range. Mainly the notes using the entire length of the clarinet except with the register key depressed. I can initiate the other ranges easily and cleanly. But around the mentioned notes, when i tried to for example play staccato quater notes and such, I constantly feel like I am about to squeek as i initiate the note. I can however cleanly start the note if it is a long tone. It' just when I for example stuff like the simple staccato notes in "In the Hall of the Mountain King" I am very close to squeeking. The only way I can manage to play the part without squeeking is by playing it very very softly, and it still doesn't feel secure. Also, In the upper range of the clarinet, mainly the altissimo and just below that, i have problems with tonguing very fast. The lower range is a piece of cake, but tonguing very fast up there.....well is just doesn't always come out right. I really kind of feel like my problem's root is in how I attack the reed. I have only been "correctly" tonguing for I guess maybe 6 months now, maybe more(I was anchor tonguing). I used Kell's staccato studies to building using the tip of my tongue instead of the middle of my tongue, but now I feel like maybe its the way in which the tip of my tongue strikes the the reed that is my problem, but I'm not absolutely sure about that either. My mind also wonders to possible embechoure issues that I am not aware of and have not been made aware of. Of course the idea did cross my mind of, "Well if its only mainly that particular range(s) of the instrument that I am having problems with, maybe its the clarinet itself", but I feel like I have the best equipment that I could ask for. All these mentioned problems are much worse when I have a weak reed, if that might tell anybody anything. I am seeking any advice, excercises, possible causes of my problems, or readings that I could use to help fix these problems. Thank you very much for reading what might seem like one big tangent!
Post Edited (2005-04-10 05:55)
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-04-11 07:45
A few things come to mind rather quickly. First, since the squeaks you're afraid of are at the bottom half of the instrument, make sure that everything is sealing up there correctly. If something is leaking, that can make life horrible for you.
However, I would guess that the squeak is caused by the starting and stopping of air. Since you mentioned you don't have the problem when you play an extended note, I'm guessing that you actually stop blowing when you play the staccato notes. When you play the long note, you don't squeak because there is adequate air behind the note. To get the same effect with the staccato notes, practice pushing the air through your clarinet even when you are tonguing. Maybe start with longer, legato notes and get those working well. Then, harden up your tongue a little bit. It should get to the point that, when you use your tongue to stop the note, you still have good air pressure behind it. So, when you release your tongue, the air is already moving well through the instrument.
(Incidentally, I am a firm believer that breathing and air support are the answer to absolutely everything on clarinet, from tone production to making difficult passages sound correctly.)
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-04-11 14:26
Those were my two thoughts exactly. First of all make sure the pads are sealing securely. Then while tonguing the air stream must be continuous and strong, the tongue will actually be cutting it off but the force is still there to be released as soon as you release the tongue. Think of a garden hose as you stop the water flow with your thumb.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-04-11 14:49
problems with B5 & C5 are often times mechanical issues.
i'd have a tech check the lower pads - the big ones on the lower joint for sealing correctly, and make sure the crows foot is adjusted properly.
try both left and right fingerings for B, C, C# - do they respond equally?
have someone else play your horn.
if you rule out a pad leak or key alignment issue, then what the others said above.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Clarino20
Date: 2005-04-11 20:50
Try something called slow-motion tonguing. Sometimes we as clarinet players neglect the use of our tongue and use it as a hammer against our reeds. This is a simple exercise I learned recently. Start by placing your tongue on the reed and back it up with some air pressure then slowly remove your tongue just enough to make a good sound. Do the opposite start with an air attack and slowly raise the tip of the tongue to stop the reed (this kind of tickles the tongue if you do it right). All you need to do for a stacatto is increase the speed at which the rebound of your tongue happens. You can also tongue a C major scale on sixteenths all the way up and down making sure each note is tongued evenly in sequence to the scale.
Best of luck,
Corey
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Author: claril
Date: 2005-04-16 08:37
In terms of tounging "correctly", does anyone have any suggestions on how make sure you are tounging right, or how to change your tounging/stacatto'ing ways and swap to a new tounging/stacatto technique?
Thanks
Post Edited (2005-04-16 08:38)
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Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-04-16 12:01
>>>In terms of tounging "correctly", does anyone have any suggestions on how make sure you are tounging right, or how to change your tounging/stacatto'ing ways and swap to a new tounging/stacatto technique?<<<
Make your teacher demonstate it. If it doesn't sound right, change teachers. If you teacher can't do it, how do you expect him/her to teach it?
Someone who does it expertly at least has the potential to be able to teach it well. Someone who can't has basically zero chance.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2005-04-16 14:52
mystery science dieter wrote:
> >>>In terms of tounging "correctly", does anyone have any
> suggestions on how make sure you are tounging right, or how to
> change your tounging/stacatto'ing ways and swap to a new
> tounging/stacatto technique?<<<
>
> Make your teacher demonstate it. If it doesn't sound right,
> change teachers. If you teacher can't do it, how do you expect
> him/her to teach it?
>
> Someone who does it expertly at least has the potential to be
> able to teach it well. Someone who can't has basically zero
> chance.
This is not always true. There may be a physical reason that the teacher can not actually do it. I knew a karate teacher once who could not kick due to severe joint problems. Yet the finest kickers I ever knew came from his school. Some how he had found a way to teach it effectively.
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Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-04-16 20:20
<<<This is not always true. There may be a physical reason that the teacher can not actually do it. I knew a karate teacher once who could not kick due to severe joint problems. Yet the finest kickers I ever knew came from his school. Some how he had found a way to teach it effectively.<<<
I suspect that this post is a joke?
If you do not see a difference between a karate kick. . .a large motion completely visable to the eye and a staccato tongue stroke. . .an tiny motion completely invisible to the eye, I am shocked.
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-04-16 23:57
Dear mkybrain; I would use a Bonade ligature. It is metal, the best to push against the reed very firmly, but the area of contact is about the size of two pencil marks for easy vibration. The purpose of the reed is to vibrate in protest against being blown away from the mpc table by all that pressure in the tip. You were sounding like your ligature was slightly loose therefore hard to start those long pipe tones that especially have more pressure built up in them . But don't let the reed win its fight. That is what a cloth or plastic ligature feels like to me, a losing deal. Can You Say: Here kitty-kitty-kitty? Bye, K K K Ken
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2005-04-20 03:04
My clarinet teacher gave me verbal visualizations of tonguing but always said not to worry about the tonguing as much as making sure you have enough constant air flowing through the clarinet. When you get the air under control, tonguing will fall into place. Your tongue rides on the airflow. It took me quite awhile to figure out what she was talking about. I could comprehend what she was saying but it was not happening for me. It has been a couple years since I have had lessons and I have finally figured out how it works. I kept applying her instruction in my lapse of lessons and it hit me. And when you do it correctly, you will know you figured it out.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-04-20 03:14
Well I have been working on this, and I believe that my problem was, and still is, air pressure, and maybe a little bit up keeping the embechoure firm and consistant, but mainly constant air pressure. I knew it probably wasn't a leak since i just had it worked on by a good tech. Probably what has helped me most so far is holding the tongue to the reed, applying air pressure, and then letting the tongue go to initiate the tone. Thanks guys.... I still welcome any more advice.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-04-20 03:34
Quote:
Probably what has helped me most so far is holding the tongue to the reed, applying air pressure, and then letting the tongue go to initiate the tone. This is a big change of thinking, and one that helped me immensely. Continue to realize and visualize that it's not actually the TOUCHING or STRIKING of the reed that sounds the note, as it is the pulling away or 'releasing' of the reed that sounds the note. This should help you to better time your finger movements and tongue. Also remember that the airstream should be CONSTANT while playing staccato anything. Don't start and stop the air with the note. It should only be the tongue against the reed that starts and stops the note. The shorter the staccato you want, the quicker your tongue has to return to the reed after releasing it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-04-20 03:37
Yea, that concept initally was kind of crazy to me. It is really difficult to switch over too as well. Habbits are hard to break but I've done it before.
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Author: claril
Date: 2005-04-20 05:15
Hi,
Do you use the same part of the tongue when stacatto'ing as when you just legato tongue? And is it the same approach but shorter? I use to have a different mind frame when staccato'ing but I'm starting to learn it's rather similiar tonguing and staccato'ing.
Thanks
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-04-20 05:38
Speil ahead:
Aside from the length of time the tongue is touching the reed, the main difference between stacatto and legato is where your tongue is placed. For legato, it's a little farther back (but really hardly at all). For stacatto, it's ever so slightly forward.
This is how I think of, and explain, tonguing. I'm sure you've seen those sprinklers with the head that turns: snap, snap, snap, snap, snap... and then goes back: snapsnapsnapsnapsnapsnap. Got the image? Good. Think of the water. The faucet the sprinkler is hooked up to never stops pushing water through the sprinkler. But the little head interrupts the flow of water just barely. And, that tiny interruption in the flow makes a noticable break in the water. It's the same with tonguing. Make sure the air is flowing like that faucet. Constant, unstopping. Then, use your tongue to interrupt the air. Even though the air never stops, the sound is noticably separated. For short notes, you interrupt the air a little longer. For long notes, it's barely an interruption.
In fact, the interruption I use is so slight that I can tongue much faster when there's a clarinet in my mouth. Why? Because my tongue moves hardly at all. If there's nothing else there, I have to move the tongue more and that takes longer.
Spiel out!
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-04-22 22:41
I have been doing ALL of my scales and ALL of Baerman tongued (and then slurred) lately and my tonguing has VASTLY improved in ALL ranges. I was shocked to hear how much better it's getting.
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