 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2005-03-03 17:11
I have a situation fast approaching which we have all faced at one time or another, and I would like to be able to try to prevent it from happening in the most professional manner as possible. I will be doing the Brahms Sonata in F-minor and would like to be able to do it with no applause until the end. A very quick pause between movements is not possible since I will need to swab the horn. The people in the qudience will be both experienced and non-experienced concert-goers - which I think is terrific. However, It only takes one or two folks to get the whole crowd clapping.
Perhaps there is something I can say in my opening comments to tactfully address this situation. I would surely appreciate your feedback.
Thanks much, Gene Hall
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2005-03-03 17:20
The conductor of our symphony has opined, "I don't worry if the audience applaudes in the wrong place. I worry that they won't applaude at all."
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2005-03-03 18:07
If you are concerned about this, make a short announcement that you are playing a multi- movement work, and while applause is gratly appreciated, please hold any applause until the end of the last movement.
If you are shy about making announcements, put it in the program.
IF HOWEVER, someone does applaud at the end of a movement, accept it as the compliment it is. Smile, nod, and go about your business.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
world class Eb clarinet mouthpieces
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2005-03-03 18:08
Let them applaud! I think as classical musicians, we should be greatful that people even come to hear us play at all! If they want to applaud in between movements (either because they think it was good or just because they are unaware of the "proper" concert etiquette) don't worry about it. Some would argue that applause between movements ruins the momentum of the performance or something, but I don't think that's a big issue.
You could always write on the program "please hold applause until the entire work is completed". However, I think stuff like that just makes the experience less enjoyable for the audience, because the new comers can be concerned with "making a mistake" (as for as etiquette) rather than simply enjoying the music. Although I've been to many concerts and seen many performers, I still never want to be the first person to start applause or start a standing ovation, because I don't want to stick out or look foolish. Imagine what it must be like for a person who doesn't know the expected behaviors at all.
If you want to read some opinions of more accomplished musicians, on Hilary Hahn's website (a classical violinist), she has questions that she asks conductors and other musicians she has worked with during her career, and one of the questions is "what do you think about applause between movements?". Surprisingly, the responses are overwhelmingly "it's not a big deal" or "don't worry about it". If you want to read the interviews and see how they responded, here is the link...
http://www.hilaryhahn.com/opinions.shtml
Don Hite
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-03-03 18:09
What I would do is absolutely nothing. What is the reason you don't want people to applaude betwen movements? I personally think the "rule" of not applauding between movements is just rediculous. Sometimes it make sense, but a lot of times it's nice for people to applaude after a long movement.
Will it interupt your concentration if the audience applaude? Either way, I don't think there is anything you could do about it.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-03-03 18:16
The notion that applause between movements is inappropriate is actually a relatively recent one. I've heard Leonard Slatkin tell an audience that he didn't mind it at all. Applause between movements from a knowledgable audience is actually a great compliment. If you would like to have applause withheld until the end of the piece, however, you might say something like: "Brahms wrote the piece I am about to perform as an integrated whole and I would like for you to enjoy it as he intended so I would appreciate it if you would please hold your applause until the end."
Best regards,
jnk
William, lol. At our Christmas concert last December, we performed the "Silent Night" section of Barber's "Dies Natalie." It is a very quiet piece for the most part and I don't think the audience quite knew what to make of it. They sat in solemn silence when it was finished. The lack of applause so confused our bassoonists, who were off-stage for the piece, that they failed to rejoin the orchestra until the middle of the next one. They wound up just walking across the stage in the middle of the piece.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-03-03 18:38
Do what I do -- play badly. That usually keeps 'em quiet.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2005-03-03 18:56
Gee Folks, I just posted this concern a short while ago. I almost didn't do it. But you know what - I feel better all ready. I am simply going to do my best and enjoy the moment - and let the audience do what they will do. After all, I have enough to worry about besides this so called "issue". Now, I can free myself up to concentrate on the final "finale" of "The Shepherd on The Rock". which follows the Brahms.
Oh, how I love you guys and gals for your insight, and especially for your keen sense of humor.
Thanks again, Gene Hall
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Author: William
Date: 2005-03-03 20:26
I would think that if your clarinet is properly warmed up before your performance and if the room is of acceptable performance temperature, you should not have to swab it between movements.
I also agree, who cares if they applaud?? If someone some does, a simple nod of your head and a smile would be appropriate--and then you can get back to "business". Reserve your grand bow for the end. Only worry if they start walking out between movements. Worry more about cell phones.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-03 21:07
OK, you've got the opinions and made your decision....which I applaud. But...why would you even have been concerned in the first place is what I don't understand. No explanation necessary.
Bob Draznik
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-03-03 21:29
In our programme notes, we always itemise the number of movements in a piece - this cuts down the extraneous applause to manageable volumes and ask the audience to ensure that all electronic devices be switched OFF - with the possible exception of digital hearing aids !!
However, if an older audience is hit by a concert of Webern etc, there can be quite a bit of ear adjustment going on !
"Unconventional" applause is sadly a fact of life as more people are introduced to the classics. Let's be thankful that they turned out (even just that once !).
A performer glaring at an audience and waving at them to stop applauding is a spectacle with which none of us really wish to be associated.
Bob T
BobT
Post Edited (2005-03-04 15:26)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-03 22:55
I'd rather hear applause between the movements than what I heard when the L.A. Phil performed Symphonie Fatnastique a few weeks ago. Between movements, there was sometimes practically an applause of coughing. It was quite loud, and my friend and I looked at each other in disgust and bewilderment.
This happened multiple times.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-03-04 03:32
At our last orchestra concert we played Tschaikowsky's 6th Symphony. The next to last movement is a barn burner and the final movement is slow and intense. Our conductor (visiting from Uruguay) told the orchestra not to worry about applause between these two movements since audiences almost always get confused at that point. He planned to gracefully acknowledge the applause and then go on with the last movement.
To add to the audience's confusion, the program only listed three movements, not four. Imagine their surprise when they applauded and started their standing ovation (or just stretching their legs) and then the orchestra rudely started playing again. There were even folks who got up to leave thinking they would avoid the rush out of the auditorium. Imagine THEIR surprise when they were somehow stranded by the orchestra starting up again.
The next night, it was announced about the missing movement - Oh, well, they applauded between the movements just as predicted. Maybe they just lost count, but I think it just because of the wonderful clarinet playing.
John
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2005-03-04 03:48
Alex, you should try a Sydney Symph concert. When visiting orchestras perform in Sydney, the musicians can be seen smiling at each other during the roll of thunder that happens between movements. It's as though they've been told of our tubercular talents before coming, but can't believe how bad it really is.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-03-04 05:39
Mark - I just got the last 3 posts emailed directly to my own email address.
Did I do something wrong when I posted my input ?(immediately before them) This is a first !
Bob T
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-04 10:38
bob49t wrote:
> Mark - I just got the last 3 posts emailed directly to my own
> email address.
> Did I do something wrong when I posted my input ?(immediately
> before them) This is a first !
You clicked the "E-mail replies to this thread, to the address above." box on that post.
You ask, the computer obeys ...
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-04 12:10
I think having no applause between movements is very effective if you are making a recording, since you dont want to be listening to a piece and then suddenly hear an audience clapping.
I have always liked having the applause held until the end of a piece, and have always found it frustrating when the audience claps in between movements. Maybe it is a compliment- or they have no idea when the end is... but anyway I feel that people should learn good concert ettiquite. My director just informs the audience that it is a piece with 3 movements... it works. I saw a concert band play where the director didn't make this announcement and people clapped and i knew she didn't want that. The next director made the announcement for his band and the audience remained silent.
like others said, it could work if you put it in the program....however, what if someone doesn't read the program? (it happens)
anyway- whatever you decide, good luck!
-Lindsie
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-03-04 12:34
"I feel that people should learn good concert ettiquite"
Who decides what is good concert ettiquite?
About the silence being affective in recordings, it's pretty easy to edit the clapping. There is always at least half a second between the end of the piece to the first clap, but even tenth of a second or maybe even less is enough to edit it with no problems.
I also think asking not to clap is not a good idea. It interups with the natural way the audience (and each person individually) will react to the piece. Like everything in music it's all about compromises. Depends if you think the audience clapping between movements will distract you more than asking them not to clap will distract them from the music, and that it's more important.
When i had recitals that short period of quiet between movements made me so much more nervous. I would even prefer the coughs.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-04 12:40
clarnibass- point taken. but sometimes people will start clapping before the end- especially on a long note or when they hear the cadence (some people, even non-musical ones) just KNOW. so editing isn't always an option. I have edited CDs and it gets a bit tricky, but you're right, it can be done.
ug. coughs! that's different all together! in my band concerts, we get the awesome effects of door slams from the "add" parents who cant just sit through a song...
-Lindsie
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2005-03-04 13:08
Christmas 15 months ago, my concert band played Ted Huggens' "New Baroque Suite". I love this piece - does anyone know of a good professional recording? It is in 3 movements entitled Overture, Air, Fugueing Theme. The Air is wonderful - and as we did the concert in a church the acoustic was perfect for it and the effect was just beautiful. Unfortunately, the "slightly embarrased inter-movement applause - do we or don't we?" just killed the atmosphere, which should be relieved by the Fugue. Our conductor dealt with it by holding the band 'to attention' and letting the applause finish before moving on. I am in general not in favour of applause between movements, as to me it always seems half-hearted or embarassed, or can kill an amosphere that the composer has tried to create. However, I would rather have applause in the wrong place than none at all. Programme notes or compere's announcements can inform the uneducated (I hate the word "Ignorant" for those wishing to acquire knowledge). As performers, whether amateurs or professional, we should accept plaudits graciously and deal with each situation as it arises. I know what I have said seems contradictory, but enthusiasm on the part of an audience is more important than knowledge, and knowledge can come with experience.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-04 13:14
Elitist attitudes about what audiences should and should not do leads to declining attendance and lost jobs
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-03-04 14:26
Applause?
carpe diem
kleb nachus
git er done
yowsa
take it an run.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-03-04 14:43
This question and the whole thread remind me of why I love playing jazz so much more than playing in a classical setting. People have to be told when to applaud!! Unbelievable! This is not a symposium on nucular brain surgury is it? It's music!! Just the fact that you would worry about that says alot about why people are "scared" to attend classical concerts and listen to classical music mostly in their homes. If you would like you can pass out instructions maybe even telling them how loud they should applaud. I think the classical concert needs to be "cleaned up" and not telling the audience when they should applaud would be a good start.
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Author: jack
Date: 2005-03-04 14:47
I've seen pro players swab out every 4-5 minutes, including during the playing of a piece but when their part is silent. It appears to me, anyway, to be an affectation, even kind of "smarmy". Why this fixation with swabbing during a performance? Most players do not appear to have this affectation and seem to play just fine.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-03-04 15:00
Whoa - sorry - inadvertent action - I've got another nine emails - how do I stop them now.
Sorry for this. Not happened before !
Bob T
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-04 15:09
I often wish our classical concerts could be more like Indian ones. I attended some a couple years ago. Everyone in the audience is usually very knowledgeable, but also not very quiet. Much of the audience will keep time by tapping the rhythmic pattern (tala) of the piece. Also, the audience, and even other performers, make active commentary on the quality of the current soloist, including murmurs of approval, tsk tsk and shaking of head at poorly executed moments, etc. There's nothing quite like the sound of 200 audience members saying a quiet "hmm" at the same time. At one concert, they even requested at the start that people keep tala quietly, a request which was wholly ignored.
I think our "sit down, shut up, look forward" attitude could use some shaking up.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-04 15:13
Dano: see, I'm just a snob...sorry. I don't even like when people clap after jazz solos- I KNOW they are clapping for the soloists, but you dont hear people clapping for a clarinet [clasical] solo when he/she rests for a couple measures! I KNOW it's different...different setting, different music, different style, but I like hearing those beautiful tenor sax solos without having to listen to the ugly sound of hands smacking together afterwards, sometimes covering up important music afterward. some people like it and like to be applauded, I get it, but why cant they recognize them AFTERWARDS? it's not like the audience will forget who they are, and whether or not they liked the soloist! Just my opinion. Tear me apart.
-Lindsie
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-04 15:16
In a jazz concert, the soloist is usually done with their soloism at around the time the applause happens. In a classical concert, who knows when the solo will end!
I, for one, do not consider applause an ugly sound. Then again, I also delight in the sound of an oboist playing just the reed.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-04 15:27
EEBaum wrote:
> I, for one, do not consider applause an ugly sound. Then
> again, I also delight in the sound of an oboist playing just
> the reed.
that's just a silly sound. I like it too. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
-Lindsie
Post Edited (2005-03-04 15:27)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-04 16:08
bob49t wrote:
> Whoa - sorry - inadvertent action - I've got another nine
> emails - how do I stop them now.
Go back to your post that started it, click "Edit my post", and uncheck the box.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-04 21:54
"I often wish our classical concerts could be more like Indian ones."
For those who haven't......viewing the Ravi Shankar portion of The Concert For Bangladesh is rather interesting....I won't reveal the punch line.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-03-04 22:44
Lindsey, I don't enjoy listening to people step on a solo with applause before the solo is even done either. I agree that clapping at jazz concerts is sometimes too much. I think that is why I am not really a fan of "live" music. I would much rather listen without any interuptions. Applause, or being told not to applaud, seems like an interuption to me. I recall going to a Miles Davis concert once and he actually turned his back to the audience and sometimes hid behind a speaker during his solos. I was almost insulted, thinking "if you are going to play for us, face us and don't hide behind a speaker every time you solo". Later I read that he sometimes needed to remove himself from the audience reaction in order to preform his best. I can identify with that. I play with my eyes closed more than I should for the same reason. I suppose that any concert, jazz or classical or whatever, is an "event" more than an ideal way of listening to music.
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