 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-23 16:32
I've had TWO bad experiences with clarinets on ebay. Since I've never bought an instrument before, I figured the safest beginning would be with a plastic V40 clarinet for daughter to use in marching band.
Both were described "excellent" in "perfect playing condition". Both were described as wood-grain look.
BOTH came back very worn, missing pads, and one was missing a thumbrest. One was said to have been used 4.5 years only in high school band. What a joke. The gold embossed V was nearly warn off, the pads were shot, and it didn't play. It was missing two pads, and was in far better shape than the other clarinet from a different seller. No way it less than fifteen years old.
Daughter's clarinet teacher played the better of the two. Didn't play. Not worth the money to fix it.
I've returned both. One seller says he did not receive the card from the post office. :( I've checked the web, and it's been delivered.
I don't know what to do about this. I suspect he's got the instrument and isn't going to refund, but he's been nice so far. He apparently doesn't know anything about clarinets, or else he deliberately misrepresented. He's had a bunch of sales, though, and good feedback. Both of these guys do.
I don't think I'll buy through ebay again. Glad this happened with a low-dollar item instead of a thousand dollar instrument.
[ we just had a thread about cpaok: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=166426&t=166426 and I don't want to start another; please refer to that thread for opinions and check the price of a new E11/mouthpiece combo from an online shop such as ww&bw to compare prices. Mark C. ]
If you have something to say about an individual, feel free to email me personally, because I don't want to hurt somebody on a public board. I will say that both these clarinets I bought came from people in Texas. Red flag there for me. When sellers have several hundred sales behind them, I wonder why don't know a clarinet is not what they've advertised, you know?
However, I'm wondering how common these misrepresentations are. Is it just that I'm not very knowledgeable, or is this a frequent thing?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: nickma
Date: 2004-12-23 17:25
Rule no 1 on ebay - email the seller with a question, see what kind of feedback you get, and run with your gut.
But don't expect a clarinet you buy on ebay to be 100% playable when you get it. Most need some work to bring it up to scratch. But then again, most show a decent saving a shop prices.
I've had one bad experience out of 8 purchases, where a joint was cracked (a Leblanc Dynamique), not advertised. I shall use for spares for the Dynamiques/ Dynamics I buy in the future. Not a huge deal then. On balance I'd say my experiences on ebay are better than off ebay.
Nick
|
|
|
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2004-12-23 17:41
Kathrynsmom:
Contact me offline.
- ron b -
|
|
|
|
|
Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-12-23 19:30
I have bought many things on E-Bay and never had a problem. Great venue!
jmsa
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-12-23 21:48
The bottom line is cost...
If an instrument sells for less than the cost of an overhaul, it is likely to need one, and soon.
If you're fishing on the bottom (under $150), your likely to find more of the same. I purchased a clean, ready to play wooden clarinet from Steve at Yankel's Warehouse for this price, and consider that exceptional.
<www.yankelswarehouse.com>
It's not a tremendous instrument, but it was everything he claimed.
Are there no reliable music stores in your area?
Second hand Bundys should be everywhere, for under $200 in playing shape.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-23 23:31
Thanks for answering. I did ask several questions, and was reassured that the instrument was in great shape and ready to play.
Neither person plays, so they couldn't tell me how they played. But both were selling it for someone they knew. ; )
I've bought a good bit on ebay, but never an instrument. Every experience has been fantastic before these two. : (
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-23 23:32
I've had only good experiences, too. But then, this is the only time I've purchased an instrument, and two serious misrepresentations?
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-23 23:44
Well, I was right around 15-200 dollars on a used plastic horn. I thought I'd get my feet wet on an instrument which was less likely to need special attention, and daughter needed a marching band clarinet. Figured I'd get a wooden one next, but that there'd be less to go wrong with a plastic one and I could learn the market a bit better on the less-expensive/care intensive instrument.
No, there's only one store in three hundred miles which has horns, and it's the small private one where daughter takes lessons. The owners want three times what an instrument is worth. Daughter loves the Selmer 10 which they have, but it's pretty old, and they want over THREE THOUSAND dollars for it. Market value appears to be around one thousand dollars. Outrageously priced for the Buffet International, too. I think the one we looked at was $1800.
They do all the band rentals for hundreds of miles. So they do not sell resins at all, and told me I couldn't buy my daughter's rental Bundy 577 at any price. We've got a three hundred dollar rental credit, already. I don't want to keep renting, and the credit doesn't grow anymore. Just straight rental fee from here on out. Monthly price is the same, around thirty dollars.
They told me to pick up a used plastic horn at a pawn shop or garage sale for less than fifty bucks. Can't find one, though. I could spend close to one thousand buying a used wood horn from thes people, but the E-10 has a plastic bell, and , well, I don't think I want to buy from them, you know? I mean, I pay eighty bucks a month for lessons at their store, and thirty for a rental, and I expect them to treat me better than to charge those prices. The owner is firm. He loses lots of business to Music 123 and the like. I'm just not sure I want to go the internet superstore route. I'm afraid of getting second-rate goods, as have others, and then had to ship them back. I'm already out sixty dollars for the shipping on these two horns, and THAT is if they really do refund my money.
I worry that somebody who'd so blatantly misrepresent ( I mean, come on, shiny plastic doesn't look like the wood-grain they advertised, and anybody can see missing pads) might not be honest with refunds, either. : (
That's the situation now. Hmm, maybe it's worth a five hour trip to Atlanta? Or a few hours to Jacksonville to check out instruments?
Sandy
|
|
|
|
|
Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-12-23 23:55
There are many large-name musical instrument catalog firms who sell either through catalog and the internet. Many have used instruments to sell. From what you're describing, it sounds as though one of those might be your best bet. Check and compare prices for an entry-level plastic clarinet, and forget about wood-grain. Who cares, it's plastic. I'm sure if you do a search at this board you will come up with names.
Sue
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-23 23:59
Thanks, Mark, for pointing me to that thread. I can't make heads or tails of what to do. I have no wish to start up that kind of discussion on the board, that's certain!
I'm more confused than ever!
How I WISH we had a decent retail store here.
The sad thing is that the sales employees of my local store really do work hard to try to make a sale and get a happy customer, and the owner (second or third generation from the founder, I think) insists on a higher price than is realistic. It costs the employees their commission, and drives folks away, I feel. I know the sales folk and other employees do all they can to convince people to buy from them. They nearly had me convinced that I couldn't get a decent instrument by ebay, internet, or any other way. However, when the manager became involved, and refused to consider that the instrument might be worth less than he had it listed, I didn't want to buy from him. : (
Local teachers seem to steer me away from online stores, because their students have received instruments with cracks, improper bores, etc. when they bought brand new Buffets. We sure did love the in-sotre Selmer 10, and when I brought up the 10-G that CPAOK had, my daughter's teacher said she was certain that it was "played out" or it wouldn't be selling for so little (around one thousand, vs. $3400 I think for the Selmer 10 in-store). The belief here seems to be that nobody online could sell an instrument for so little unless it didn't play well. I didn't realize you could "play out" and instrument.
Ah, well.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-24 00:03
Oh, I don't care if it's shiny or wood-grain. Plastic is plastic, as you said.
It's the fact that it was so grossly misrepresented, that the person didn't read his own description! It was obvious that it wasn't wood-grain, just as it was obvious to my eye that pads were missing!
I think they both pulled the "canned" description off of the Vito site and didn't even care to see if it fit the description of the instrument they were selling!
At this point, I'm even considering the Forte plastic. With the special barrel, it could sound good and loud on the football field, and that's what counts with a plastic horn.
For four hundred dollars, it might be worthwhile.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Jimmy Zhong
Date: 2004-12-24 00:17
The Forte is an extremely recommended clarinet, and cpaok sells them (and will playtest them beforehand as well). I'd say go for the forte by all means.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-24 00:29
Kathrynsmom wrote:
>
> little (around one thousand, vs. $3400 I think for the Selmer
> 10 in-store).
My 10-G sold new for $1200 in 1994. It would be probably around 2K new today. $3400 is list price.
The problem, of course, is the small stores can't afford to keep many in stock at a reasonable price. The local music store here (in the Detroit metro area) will order a high-end clarinet for me for near list price - they have essentially none in stock. Why would I have a store order one for me for list price (and get eseentially a randomly selected instrument) when for 30-40% less I can do the ordering myself?
It's a conundrum for sure.
I deal with The Woodwind & The Brasswind now, ordering all sorts of instruments for our friends' children (clarinets, flutes, trumpets, saxes), and have yet to be disappointed with the quality or setup of the instruments.
I hit up the local Guitar Center for mics, amps, and guitars.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-12-24 00:51
Thanks, Mark. The difference was that this Selmer we tried out was a 10, not a 10-G, and was manufactured in the late 1970s or so. It had been repadded, etc., and was taken in trade by this store owner as credit on another instrument. He was the one who had it repadded, I think. I remember hearing the retail on the work done to it was around 3-400 dollars.
He probably gave less than 500 dollars credit for it.
This instrument /situation has been discussed before, and several people all agreed that it was worth less than $1000 retail. I didn't know all this at the time, but it didn't compute that an instrument of that age, even a good one, would cost so much more USED than a good new instrument we looked at the same store would go for.
I'll look again at wwbw. I have been told by the store folks that what goes over the net at those stores is not the good merchandise. Supposedly busloads of students hand-pick the good stuff, and the rejects get sent over the mail from the website. I do know several folks who got inferior products and returned them a few times. A couple of those were saxophones, although I don't know what difference that would make. Shipping cost, I guess.
One fellow clarinet at the school came from Music 123 and the player is happy. His E11 (music 123) helped him get second chair in a huge festival, and he's a second-year player.
I'm in a small city in the deep south, and band is not a high-priority here, unfortunately. We're the biggest in a few hundred miles. One horn store, a few piano/guitar stores. We had a symphony here, once, but it closed a couple a years ago. Sigh. Now we just get orchestras to come from other places to play now and then.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Bnatural
Date: 2004-12-24 01:32
wwbw may send you one bad product. But, then you send it back for a different one. They have trial periods and selection processes, I forget how that all works I haven't read the catalog in a while, read on their websites.
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-24 01:56
ww&bw & music123 is the same store - one's the brick & mortar, one the internet only arm.
Everyone picks over them, Internet & store visitors.
It'd be worth your time to head over to Boone, NC and visit Muncy Winds I think ...
|
|
|
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2004-12-24 01:57
wwbw - call them. their phone prices are better than their posted web prices.
they screwed up and sent me a bad flute. tripped over themselves fixing it. were aghast that a problem had occurred, and moved with blinding speed to fix it.
other's mileage may vary, but i've had nothing but good experiences with them.
email me offline, i'll give you the name and phone number of one of their sales reps.
nope, i don't work for them.
ebay instruments - maybe 80% of the horns i get off of ebay need full repads, regardless of the auction description, and many of those need overhauls. e.g., more extensive work than just repadding.
2 recent ebay purchases - a barrel in 'excellent condition' is cracked, and a v40 'repadded in the last year' has pad mite damage - needs a full repad. so buyer beware- you get what you pay for. i do my own repad work, and plan on a full repad on anything i get off of ebay - if i get a horn in good condition, its an unexpected bonus.
i ocassionally sell repadded/overhauled instruments on ebay. when i do, its fully guaranteed. so some of us texans are fine outstanding folks - and folks like j b and i who know what 'delta mu' mean never sell junk...
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
|
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-24 02:04
OK, we've rolled around the eBay threads long enough, and now we know who sells what where. Normally I don't let sales come through the BBoard, but the information's been pretty good.
But enough for now. Let's leave eBay for a while.
|
|
|
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
