 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-11 23:00
Today I got my 1969 R-13 (C#/G# needle spring - fatter diameter). Day of joy! But, using a loupe and very bright light, I find three tiny, shiny black "dots" in the lower half of the upper joint, the first and second an inch apart, the second and third an inch and a half apart. The third almost crashes into the serial number of the top joint (106xxx). The dots are tiny, a bit larger than the tip of a pencil that has written a few lines. They are very reflective. :(
The entire clarinet is extraordinarily black and "dull," and I am reminded of Alvin Swiney's phrase, "black india ink," which he said was used for those "modern" R-13s. The grain and look of the wood on this hippie-era R-13 is opaque and black, without a hint of brownish-red or grain pattern. However, the grain that is visible is "open." The bell weighs a ton.
There is NO evidence - absolutely none - of a crack where these little circles are. Nada! Using intense magnification, I can find nothing of a crack (however, the bell has been cracked and repaired - this was not disclosed by the eBay seller).
Could these three pinhead "things" be cosmetic fill? I have a matte black grand piano, and there are a few shiny spots where the manufacturer touched up the wood. These spots on the Buffet remind me of my piano.
It plays ... OK. I forgot how Buffets play! Almost two years now on mid-century Selmers and 1930s Buffets. This new clarinet is very resistant (that's what I wanted!) and stuffy (not so sure about that!). Of course, I'm out of practice on a polycylindrical. That's probably it.
Thanks for any advice/reflections, especially from furniture refinishers (ha!)
Bill
Washington, DC
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-12-11 23:44
This reminds me of something a tech acquaintance told me a couple of years ago, Bill. The tech repaired a crack for a dentist customer. Upon picking up the instrument the customer accused the tech of switching something, or some other shenanigan (I don't remember now the exact accusation) because he could find no evidence whatsoever of a pinned repair. Being a dentist he, of course, had ready access to X-ray equipment and, to prove his argument, X-rayed the instrument. You probably can guess "the rest of the story". He profusely apologized to the tech and congratulated him on doing such a fine repair. While a pinned and filled repair can be done to a near-perfect match, it's possible that over time the filler, usually blackwood dust and glue, might become shinier than the surrounding wood. Or it could be, as your piano, just the nature of things. You could, if it's really important to you, pay for an X-ray. Or, you could just continue to enjoy making wonderful sounds on what you say is a pretty nice old Buffet clarinet.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-12 00:39
Ha-ha! Thank you! It is as you say - there is no visible evidence of the repair. I'm still not convinced I'm dealing with a pinned crack. The problem is not with the clarinet per se - my concern is that the seller stated "no cracks, no pins ..." I have to decide if I am going to set in motion the "Paypal buyer satisfaction" option. The seller misrepresented the item.
His feedback is good/excellent.
Bill.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-12 02:50
From what you say, the dots seem less than say 0.6 mm diameter.
Pinning wire is normally threaded. The thinnest of several diameters available is 1.5 mm. The hole will be larger than that because it has to be oval at the end, or enlarged from oval to circular. I would expect the filling to be either oval, at least 1.5 x 2.0 mm, or circular, at least 2 mm.
Perhaps the manufacturer filled some borer holes. :-)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-12 14:22
It is possible that the seller truly believed what he stated. Typical "fillers" I've seen on top of pins are larger than the size you mention...as Gordon also mentions. If you are happy with the horn's performance...as you seem to be....why get bothered with an argument that may have no relevance.
If you believe the seller misrepresented the horn why not deal directly with him....you both would be better off. There are plenty of people who would pay what you probably did for a 69 Buffet...even with known repaired cracks. I've got a horn from about that era with known pins, the same finish, a bell ring that was loose, heavy as lead, with a N.J. music store label that I believe was mfg.by Buffet and it plays beautifully.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-12-12 15:22
Black and "Dull" finish is not a good indication. It means that the original finish is gone. "Black India ink" was not used on Buffet clarinets from this era. (thing of the 90s).
Last week I finished complete restoration on the R-13 with the serial number close to yours 103XXX. Finish on this horn was worn in some places but still "shiny" in and out.
The spots you're seeing may be just shellac (or supper glue) traces left by repairman, but I would carefully examine the lower tenon for the crack extension that is very hard to hide. Also check bore side in place where the spots appear.
Buffet R-13 is never very resistant unless it's something wrong with it.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-12 16:57
Thanks Vytas! I know your 103xxx R-13 well and would have bought it, but I needed to use Paypal (that was the deciding factor for me!). This is probably a good opportunity to say how satisfied I am with two mouthpieces I recently obtained from you. The facings are remarkably responsive, and my teacher (NSO player) was impressed with them technically and with their sound.
I have checked the bottom tenon, suspecting as you say that this crack would show itself there - there is no trace at the tenon (even though the last "dot" is almost at the bottom tenon).
Also, I misrepresented the size of the little circles. They are almost exactly the size and shape of the following character: o
I cannot chip or sand away to reveal any "metal." There is a little "puddle" of shiny black material mounded on top of each of the dots (keep in mind this is as viewed through a magnification loupe!!!!). I chipped then sanded this "hill" of shiny material away from one of them (0000 superfine steel wool), and I was left with just the flat circle, no change in color - but less shiny. In one dot, the material mounded on top of it has something "red" inside it. Again - this is high magnification - just glancing at the instrument would not reveal this.
The resistance and stuffiness of this R-13, IMO, are because of my own habit of always playing very freeblowng pre-war Buffets and old Selmers. These clarinets are very easy to play (although not to play in tune!) and they give their "heart" away for very little embouchure effort. (They are fabulous!)
I will play and re-evaluate this R-13 today. I am worried that it looks so very "matte black," like a brand new Artley. That concerns me.
Bill.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-12 19:38
The surface appearance is very dependent on how light is reflected from it.
It would take a 'condition' only microns thick to make a surface matte instead of shiny.
Simple light buffing, say with a little canauba wax, will often restore a surface. Indeed, that may well have been what was done at the factory to ESTABLISH a pretty surface.
I consider that the appearance of the surface itself is not a good indication of the timber beneath.
So why get so worried.
Post Edited (2004-12-12 22:50)
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2004-12-13 05:24
I bought a 1970 R13 (sn 110xxx) that John Butler had on consignment. The wood is shiny with brown highlights. Its a great instrument and I love playing it. (Thanks again, John!)
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-12-13 16:17
The Doctor has some amazing wax that would probably work. You can find his address by clicking on the accessories catogory on the right hand menu list. All of his products are incredible.
jmsa
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