 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-21 21:58
I just put up a performance of the Brahms Trio I did with Pianist Dr. Martin Soderberg (Artists International Winner) at a Festival.
It's free and there is no registration.
http://download.com/davidblumberg
The 1st mvt is an older recording (still live) from 1988 from the Marcellus Nova Scotia Festival (2,3 and 4 are from 1998 still live - cellist didn't want me to release mvt 1 from that performance)
Post Edited (2004-11-26 12:47)
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-11-21 22:14
awesomeness... Hehe, I listened to the first movement! I don't usually listen to many recordings of clarinet players... Primarily because I have none... So, thank you, that only makes me less deprived...
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-21 22:15
One of my FAVORITE pieces that I've heard (with my limited exposure). Thanks much for putting this up for us! I'm downloading as I type . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-21 22:24
As I listen I realize I've only heard movement one. I've always wanted to play this one myself, but I don't have an A clarinet. But when I get one, you can bet it'll be one of the first pieces I attempt to get together with whatever pianist/cellist I find.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-22 12:04
David- I really don't mean to be malicious, but don't you think you should work on your intonation? You played quite sharp a lot of the time on this recording (especially in quiet sections and in the throat register). I'm aware that it was a live recording, but it really detracted from the performance for me. Sounds to me like you need to pull out more, or change something with your set-up?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-22 16:04
Liquorice - that means that you didn't listen to any more tracks than the 1st mvt.
That mvt was recorded back in 1988 on a new A (at the time) which I wasn't used to and yeah it was sharp at times.
The other mvts are from 1999 and are in tune. That's why I didn't mention the 1st which has been up for a while.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-22 16:52
Liquorice, btw
I listened to the 1st mvt last week and cringed a lot too 
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-22 17:14
I listened to the 1st and 2nd movement...
Sorry to be so critical, but I guessed you wanted feedback seeing you put the tracks up on this site?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-22 17:37
I'm listening to it right now.
The intonation problems in the first movement really didn't bother me at all. The main problem is the recording is not so good. I think it sounds even worse because it's a mp3 file, which almost never sounds good.
The recording of the second and third movements sound better but also not great.
Overall I really liked your sound (it's excellent!) and playing but the trio doesn't sound that well together. A little lacking in energy and kind of dragging.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-22 17:57
I like the 2nd mvt to be slow so to me it didn't drag at all and did maintain the energy. Listen closely - it's intense.
Post Edited (2004-11-22 23:47)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-22 18:30
I agree with clarnibass- I'm sure the quality of the recording didn't do justice to your performance. I also like your tone very much!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-22 19:15
Thanks.
The file there was taken from a DAT recording live which was taped on my computer (a while back) then reduced to 128K, then again expanded to WAV and compressed to 192 K which is what CNET wants it at.
In other words, I sound a lot better live........
The 1st mvt was done on a small tape recorder from somebody in the audience.
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Author: anotherinstrument
Date: 2004-11-22 20:01
Its a hard piece. We all know that (at least those of us who have played the trio, or Brahms for that matter.)
If one must find so many outside explainations for why something sounds as it does maybe one should pull the link off of public domain, unless they are willing to take criticism along with the compliments?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-22 20:44
So "anotherinstrument", why the false name and single posting?
I wasn't defending being sharp in the 1st mvt, I was saying that my tone sounds better live than the recording due to the compression/recompression.
That being said I still like the sound which is there and the connections of the notes don't change with compression at all - they are right on.
I'm not looking for critics nor an argument, just putting something up which you can hear for free - so you at least get your money's worth 
Post Edited (2004-11-22 21:31)
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Author: anotherinstrument
Date: 2004-11-22 22:28
So "DavidBlumberg" my name "anotherinstrument" is not a false one at all. I am not looking for an argument either. I am not a clarinetists. I play another instrument....cello actually. So, I thought my message board name was fitting. I believe that message boards aren't for divulging too much personal information. You never know what kind of nut jobs are out there reading and obtaining information about us now a days! Who knows who's reading this right now. I for one, do not want everyone knowing too much about my own personal information. I mean no offense to the sane ones ! ;-)
As for a single posting? Yes, this is my first post, but not my first reading. I have chosen to post on this particular one because I have worked on the Brahms trio, more than once. Its a challenging, complex piece that constantly brings me a clarity about my own limits and need to continue to strive for perfection on a daily scale. It is knowledge I use as a musician to propel me forward in artistry, musicality and technical abilites.
My Motto? ....When one feels they have mastered all the hidden innuendos that Brahms (the genius that he truly was) has worked into that trio, It is only fair to give Sony Classics a call and record the work correctly so that all can enjoy it the way it was meant to be enjoyed.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-22 22:52
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> I'm not looking for critics nor an argument, just putting
> something up which you can hear for free - so you at least get
> your money's worth
Then what are you looking for? Pats on the back?
When you put up something artistic, tell people you're a professional at it, and then invite people to partake of it, of course you're inviting criticism - free or not. What did you expect?
If I write a program and share it with others for free (something I do frequently) I'm naturally inviting comment on what I've given out.
On another point - people are free to use whatever "pen name" they want to. Trying to call them out on that is rude.
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Author: Gardini
Date: 2004-11-22 23:03
Wow - Even if I ever become accomplished enough to play and record such a piece, it would take me years of practicing hide toughing to share it on this board. I applaud anyone giving the clarinet or any other musical instrument a go. Thanks for sharing David
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-22 23:06
Gardini wrote:
> Wow - Even if I ever become accomplished enough to play and
> record such a piece, it would take me years of practicing hide
> toughing to share it on this board.
Try posting on any of the computer language BBoards or newsgoups! ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-22 23:10
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> That mvt was recorded back in 1988 on a new A (at the time)
> which I wasn't used to and yeah it was sharp at times
> I listened to the 1st mvt last week and cringed a lot too
> it wasn't studio recorded so again....
> Both the performances were done with Pianists
> who didn't know the work before playing it at the
> festival and the 2&3 the Cellist didn't know it in advance either
> The 1st mvt was done on a small tape recorder from
> somebody in the audience
Thus, based on your above statements, if this recording, admittedly, does not reflect your best performance, perhaps it is something which should not be put up for display.
Free or not free ...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-22 23:45
The 1st mvt was a young performance - sharp or not it was still very good playing.
I don't regret putting any of the mvts up - they stand on their own.
Post Edited (2004-11-22 23:49)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-11-23 01:46
You know something - you guys are nasty. Sorry - but David put something out there, which takes guts. Didn't your mothers ever teach you, if you can't say something nice...
Why do some musicians always have to find something to criticize? It doesn't make you a better player.
Sue
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 01:57
Thanks 3dogmom
Post Edited (2004-11-23 04:33)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-23 04:51
David - as someone who has put up a recording on the Bboard for the world to hear in the past, I share your pain - you just want people to listen and say 'thanks', not give you a whole critique.
Needless to say, I will never do it again. The critics have ruined it for the people who genuinely wanted to listen and enjoy.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: anotherinstrument
Date: 2004-11-23 04:54
Dear 3dogMom,
You are right!
;-)
We all want to say something nice. Music is a hard world where we must constantly cut ourselves down and build ourselves back up internally to progress.
Its nice to be able to complement one another when its due. Its also nice to make the conscious choice to do so.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-23 05:01
PS For what it's worth, David I love your playing, it's gorgeous!
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 05:06
When I listened the other day to the mvt 1 and heard that it was sometimes out of tune I cringed and thought "oh jeez, I probably should take it down". But the overall playing of that mvt is gorgeous besides the pitch so I left it up. The other 2 mvts there I'd stand up against any other player here or anywhere. I haven't put up mvt 4 yet, but same for that one too. I studied the Brahms Trio with David Shifrin, Tony Gigliotti, and Lambert Orkis who was Anne-Sophie Mutter and Loren Kitt's Accompanist and Mitchel Lurie (Clarfest Master Class I played in). In the 1st mvt the Pianist Pamela Pyle is the Staff Accompanist for the top Violin Teacher in the World at Juilliard (DeLay) and the Cellist was Cellist for the Vermeer Quartet and Principal Cellist of the St Louis Symphony.
So even though I was still a kid then it was a very good performance musically. We ended up only performing the 1st mvt as the Pianist and Cellist fought like hell (Marcellus Festival Nova Scotia and we only had 4 days to put it together) so the other mvts didn't happen. They walked out on each other in the last rehearsal.
So critics can love it, hate it, or not even say a word on it - it's all ok.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 05:15
Thanks LeWhite
Post Edited (2004-11-23 05:16)
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-11-23 05:35
a nice performance- while the recording quality has been compromised by the time it got to my stereo, i hear great tone- i'm sure i'd like the real thing. The intonation isn't perfect, but it sounds like professional playing to me.
on the issue of "perfect playing" (ie notes out of tune etc), there is a recording of me playing the Lilburn Sonatina in Germany- the piano was way sharp and so for the opening of the 1st mvt i was quite flat, thoughout the rest of the recording you can hear notes here and there that weren't quite where i thought they would be (a little flat here and there, an in some places i pushed the pitch up where i didn't need to etc), though it's pretty much in tune with the A445 piano. If i put that on the net i'm sure that you'd be able to critisize the heck out of it.
The thing is, the audience loved it. The concert got a good review, and that piece was especially mentioned as being very successful. All present had a musical experience, and that eclipsed the significance of any little imperfections.
i know it can be hard, but just try to listen to the MUSIC, if you do that and go back to DBs Brahms, you'll realise that it's really a very effective performance! And if you want to hear "out of tune", just listen to some of the great orchestras playing only 50 odd years ago, you'll hear some hair raising notes for sure....
donald
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Author: anotherinstrument
Date: 2004-11-23 05:37
Harold Wright.
Theres a guy that I'd listen to on a tape recorder, but I guess he never put that out for us to hear....
I wonder why...............
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-23 06:25
Intonation is overrated. I'm serious.
David, by 'dragging' I didn't mean the tempo at all. Can't think of a better way to explain it, sorry. I am still saying I really liked how you played very much, just not the trio together.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-11-23 09:39
Intonation is overrated?? No, you can't be serious...you must be joking.
I'm not going to comment on David's performance as I don't think I have anything new to add...(nice, even sound, good use of colours...with some intonation worries in all movements) but I do think a cellist who has played this piece has something as valid to contribute as any clarinettist. It's a truly terrifying 'cello part.
Any chance we can hear the 4th movment?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-23 13:02
A sound clip was put up for free,
Which brought comments from the bourgeoisie.
If your tuning is weak,
The critics will speak.
A "bravo" is no guarantee.
...GBK
/all in good fun
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 13:11
I have to put it up. They only give 50 megs of space and the 1st mvt ended up being uploaded twice a while back as it didn't seem that it had worked, then both showed up. I've written them to remove the duplicate but hasn't happened yet.
Yes Clarnibass - I completely agree (after you explained). The ensemble for the 2 and 3 mvt. wasn't very tight at all as the other players learned the work at the festival. You would think that a Cellist with a Performance Doctorate would have already played the Brahms Trio before but wasn't the case.
I played a festival that Gary Hoffman (major Cellist playing on a Million Dollar Cello) didn't know the Brahms Trio either! During the 1st mvt ending in the 1st rehearsal the last runs completely fell apart between the Clarinet and Cello - (was Shifrin's trio).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 13:54
ok, just uploaded mvt 4. It will show up probably about the same time that the duplicate mvt 1 is removed (today or tomorrow probably).
Somehow I kinda doubt that Thursday any files will be updated by CNET
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-23 14:07
RAMman wrote: "Intonation is overrated?? No, you can't be serious...you must be joking."
No, I was serious.
I'm not saying you shouldn't play with good intonation, but slight intonation problems are meaningless, like in David's recording.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-11-23 14:11
I don't think anything that can be entirely eradicated by listening can possibly be called meaningless.
Anyone can play a clarinet...one of the most fundamental things that seperates Sabine Meyer, Michael Collins or Andrew Marriner (simply as examples...) is how in tune they play the thing.
Someone no doubt will quote the famous Jack Brymer statement regarding tuning...I can't remember it word for word and would hate to misquote the great man!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-11-23 15:04
David -
Did you also perform the 4th movement, and is there room on the site to post it?
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 15:19
I just uploaded it but it takes a few hours to show up.
Mvt's 2,3 and 4 I don't find any intonation issues with at all.
The old mvt 1 is cringable intonation wise at times, but I doubt there are many players who could have pulled it off much better at that young of an age.
I'll put up the 1st mvt from that other performance (2,3,4) so you can hear the intonation corrected - same Clarinet, much older player. There are time when the Pianist and Cellist almost get lost playing together (I actually counted 6 problems during my rests that happened in the 1st mvt with them). As I wrote before, Brahms Trio was hard for them to learn in just a week.
Post Edited (2004-11-23 15:47)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-23 18:57
To be honest, sometimes I find myself ELATED when intonation or other problems occur. The reason being that this is a professional player, someone who's made it, and even THEY are human. Sorta gives me hope in a wierd way that if THEY can have problems, maybe I shouldn't be so upset at all my problems all the time. I'll still work to correct them, but after hearing a squeak or squawk or something out of a PRO clarinetist, I can at least say, "Well, yeah, I have my problems, but so did/does _____, and so maybe there's still hope for me to make a dime out of it one day."
As for your recording, I liked it very much. What actually stuck out in MY mind while hearing it was the cellist's intonation problems. However maybe that's because the only recording I've heard was Yo-Yo Ma, Emmanual Ax and Richard Stoltzman and I subconsciously compared your cellist to Yo-Yo Ma.
In any case, I liked it, I'm keeping it on my computer, and I wish you lived closer to me so I could find out your rate for lessons because I'd love to one day start clarinet lessons with SOMEONE and you seemed like a good choice based on your recordings.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2004-11-23 20:01
This is such a typical calrinet BBoard thread it's uncanny. Somebody puts something on, gets criticized, doesn't appreciate it. 30 responses later, he still gets criticized, still doesn't appreciate it.
There is just no way a performance is going to be accepted by a bunch of clarinet players with expertise ranging from beginner to accomplished pro and who are so into it that they have to spend their non practising time on the net talking about clarinets. Be ready for the criticism, thank the people for their feedback and move on. Your performance should speak for itself, no need to justify this and that.
Be thankful for the heat, it got probably more people to download and listen to your performance. I put up a performance a while ago (and shamelessly posted it here again) and loved to hear that people actually dared listening to it
Keep on the good work, both heaters and heatees, this board is fun because of you!
-S
http://sylvain.homelinux.org/~sylvain/Brahms/Brahms.html )
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-23 20:28
Sylvain- actually I think David has taken the criticism very well. And he's had more favourable comments than negative ones.
3dogmom wrote "you guys are nasty... Didn't your mothers ever teach you, if you can't say something nice..."
No, my mother didn't teach me that. If I only said nice things to my students they wouldn't actually learn much. And what I wrote wasn't nasty.
clarnibass- I also find it hard to believe that you were serious when you said that intonation is overrated. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but this opinion wouldn't get you very far in the professional music world.
My reason for writing any criticism at all was exactly related to that- David is a professional clarinetist. So when you listen to his recording, you listen with certain expectations. If he was just an amateur then the "slight intonation problems" would be acceptable. But as a professional, based on these recordings, his intonation isn't up to the level of the other aspects of his playing.
The clarinet is a difficult instrument to play in tune. Unfortunately a lot of the time it isn't played in tune, and a certain level of "out of tune-ness" is accepted, which wouldn't be accepted by professional oboists, for example. I pointed this out exactly so that students or amateurs (like Alexi said) won't take the attitude of "Oh well, if a PRO can't play it in tune then it's OK if I don't".
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 20:32
Thanks Alexi, It's hard to tell a players teaching ability by their playing as all playing does is demonstrate how good of a student they themselves were. The 1st mvt cellist is a very masterful player much more so than the other mvts player who I didn't consider to be very good at all.
A way to tell a teacher's abililty in teaching is to hear the students and how they play. That shows if a teacher is a great teacher or not. And some teachers are better at teaching and fixing playing problems, others only focus on reperitoire and are lost if the student has a significant problem. I teach a lot more than I play and love studio teaching. Hand injuries from 1989 are why I don't do more playing. My fingers literally stiffen up if I don't move them for about 20 minutes (say I fall asleep while watching tv). I've had that since 1993 - just appeared overnight. So I'll do sub stuff and recordings, but won't take a full time playing job. Before the injury my goal was to be Principal Clarinetist for a big 5 Orchestra. No idea if I would have made it but the odds are always against it.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-23 20:41
And Liquorice, The intonation is on par with the more recent recording (from the late 90's).
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-24 15:10
RAMman, since English is not my first langauge, I might have chosen the wrong word. I just meant the intonation problems (except maybe a few times) didn't bother me at all.
Liquorice, I can play in tune (I'm not saying it's perfect but no one is perfect).
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-11-25 18:26
I just heard James Campbell play in a live recording of the Brahms and cringed at the tuning alot of the time...I have also heard him play brilliantly too so you gotta have a sense of charity at times..
As to David Blumberg I admire your tone and at least your attempting to do some really musical stuff there...
However, I have played clarinet professionally for 25 years and can say the clarinet itself is nasty...maybe we could hear Liquorice's playing.
I have also heard some really in-tune playing and been bored to tears..at least you didn't do this ///
Regards '
David Dow
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-11-26 02:22
I thought the recordings were beautiful, clarinet and all. I'm not familiar with the piece though, which could either mean i dont know what im talking about or that i was just listening to the music and not the notes, if that makes any sense at all.
Post Edited (2004-11-26 02:24)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-26 03:02
Thanks for listening. I asked Mark to close the thread.
Post Edited (2004-11-26 16:36)
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The Clarinet Pages
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