 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2004-11-01 03:19
I bought a Leblanc Paris clarinet to get my wife to start playing again. It is a very nice dark brown, looks like it has never been played, and serial number 60,xxx. There is no model number but the G. is above the Leblanc so I know this clarinet is newer than 1955 (got this info from searching this bboard). The Leblanc stamp looks like that of the LL except there is no LL.
A friend of mine purchased hundreds of instruments from the Leblanc museum when Selmer bought the company out. This part of that lot. Why would Leblanc not have a model name on this most excellent instrument? It's intonation is spot on from the top to bottom register. Another clarinet forum (http://clarinetontheweb.net) said to contact Leblanc so I have written them via a link from the French web site.
I am trying to figure out when this clarinet was made and where it might fit into the models offered for that year. Any information would be appreciated.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2004-11-01 03:19)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2004-11-01 19:13
why not just call Dave Surber at Leblanc in Wisconsin; number there is: 262-658-1644. He's the house historian and will tell you when the instrument was made, etc.
could you explain what you mean by "when Selmer bought the company out?" Is that in reference to a "Leblanc museum" (what was that) or does Selmer now own Leblanc? Is Steinway involved?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-01 22:42
Hi Gandalfe - I have followed Leblanc for quite a few years, as I recall my L7 is ser.# 43xxx, so IF your # is 60xxx [could it be 6xxx?] it would likely put it into the 80-90's, and most Leb's Ive seen do carry a model name. I found and gave to a son, an OLD early Leb 40-50's which had no model name, a good one as I recall. I believe that in the 50's is when they started putting model names on, Classic, Dynamic etc. Ask Surber and let us know, please, as we have many inquiries about early Lebs. Does yours have the "jump" trill keys, or other time-distinguishing key structures ? They have many patents which helps dating. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-11-01 23:36
I heard through the instrument repair board that Dave Surber got canned in the LeBlanc/Selmer merger. I hope that information is not correct. He has always been very helpful in matters concerning LeBlanc. Does anyone know for sure?
jbulter
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2004-11-02 02:13
There is a lot of information about the Steinway (the company that also owns Selmer, Conn, etc.) purchase of Leblanc on this site. The public announcement is at http://www.gleblanc.com/press/Leblanc_Acquisition_Release.pdf. Sorry if I confused anyone about that transaction which occured in July of this year.
My instrument does indeed have a serial number of 60xxx. As the owner of many instruments, I can tell you that other than the G. Leblanc mark there is no model number. I've gone over the clarinet with a magnifying glass and light because I was looking for both model information and cracks. It does have the same markings as the LL minus the LL model name if that helps.
What is a jump trill key? It is mentioned a lot on the Web but there are no pictures.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-11-02 02:40
Jump trill keys are a Leblanc "innovation" dating back to the late 1950s or early 1960's. Instead of "sliding" down over the tone holes as they are seating home, the pads drop directly onto the holes from above. In order to enable that, the key structures "vault" over the lower toneholes of the group.
Viewed from the side, the Leblanc keys resemble asymetric Roman aqueducts, and are much "taller" from the horn than are those from Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha.
Personally, I prefer the "traditional" profile and feel of the regular trill key arrangement over the Leblanc style. Your mileage may differ...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-11-02 15:02
Great description,Terry. ....and a gran coup for you Gandy
Bob Draznik
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-11-02 15:52
Terry,
Please permit me to take issue with your description, viz: kinematically, the path of the key cup coming down onto the tonehole is completely determined by just two things: the straight-line distance from the center of the cup to its pivot (the rod), and the angle of that pivot rod relative to the body of the instrument. The path taken by the key arm can be as straight or as tortuous as you like, it doesn't make any difference to the motion of the key cup --- try your own experiment if you don't believe it. Leblanc's "jump" trill keys are rugged and look nice (I think) but offer no mechanical advantage over the traditional design.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-02 16:18
Since BobD used Gandy, I'll presume to do the same ! I was and am [again] certain of your info, G, at the time of my "above" all I could think of was older model-name practice, others know more of this than A US selling gimmick? I recall a Selmer [presumed but not marked, CT] of that time period/ser #, which had been purchased in Fr, imported to US, like the Buffet R13's, at least some are unmarked as such. Perhaps that is the ancestry of your good cl. Why dont you, and may I, ask our LeB lovers to help date it by Ser # 60xxx, perhaps giving them another digit for closer interpolation. Terry, as I recall, the jump key configuration is shown in a 1930's US patent, to Leon Leblanc. If I can find my copy, I'll post its #/date, its 1,9xx,xxx, so you can hunt for it as a "Reference Cited" in newer [1976+] pats on cl key systems/improvements, retrievable/viewable from USPTO easily. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2004-11-02 20:27
Per Don's most excellent request the serial number is 60,2xx. Many people think this is a contempory horn (vice antique) because of the serial number. As nice as it looks, I'm inclined to agree.
I've written Leblanc in France although I'm told that I need to write them repeatedly to get an answer. We'll see if that effort bears any fruit.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2004-11-02 21:46)
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-11-04 05:52
A minor point, not even on topic:
Perhaps I'm not understanding Dave's comment of how jump keys work and I don't have a Leblanc clarinet handy. But it seems that the jump key idea helps the pad seating slightly. I'm looking at a non jump key clarinet now and the angle of the rod of one of these side keys is about 20 degrees from the perpendicular to the center of the tone hole. In other words, the pad lifts off the hole at 70 degrees rather than a perfect 90 degrees. A jump key should make the pad lift off at 90 degrees. (This is disregarding the angle in the other dimension determined by the distance from the cup to the rod which Dave mentioned.)
Make sense, Dave?
Wayne
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-04 14:27
To follow up on my post of a few days ago re: the "jump" trill key structure, claimed advantages etc, I found my packet of Leblanc patents, this # is 1,926,489, Sept. 1933, and should be viewable on USPTO.gov, Databases, Issued, Pat No., then IMAGES [if you have the needed "readers"], I'll check mine. Inventor Leon L, via his pat atty, gives lengthy description of it as well as some quite complex, interconnected, register key, thumb ring, A et al key structures, well before Stubbins, Mazzeo and others !! Without detailed study, my impressions of the "jumps" is much the same as previous posts here [and elsewhere], that is, the angles of approach/departure to/from the tone holes, adequacy/uniformity of venting , ease of dissembly/assembly, beyond an intriguing appearance. It seems I'm verbose again, !!, newer thots may follow ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-11-05 15:13
Wayne,
I don't have a Leblanc soprano clarinet anywhere nearby to look at, so I was just assuming that the geometry of the pad cup (i.e. its location is space relative the the pivot rod for its key, irrespective of the linkage in between) was the same as for 'regular' clarinets --- but it may not be. If the "jump" design allows Leblanc to reposition the toneholes relative to the pivot so that they're essentially collinear (along the same "North-South" line drawn on the clarinet body, if you will) then that would permit the keycup to sit squarely on the tonehole at a 90-degree angle, as you assert --- which would be a superior design feature. I probably shouldn't have posted without first looking at the instrument in question!
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