 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2004-10-16 01:22
Seems like every picture I see from this era, the clarinetist is using a standard Buffet or similar ligature. Were there other choices? When did inverted ligatures become more popular? Also, in the quest for a sound like Marcellus, why is it that people don't use the same ligature he did? I rather like my Buffet ligature. I do get a few stares from other clarinet players though like they think I must have lost my mind.
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2004-10-16 01:24
I got my first luyben ligature about 1971 I think. I'm the only one I've seen currently that has one. Don't know if I get funny looks or not.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-16 01:43
I've played on Luybens, Bonades, Harrisons etc which all date back [even farther?]. I have run patent searches on ligs, and there are many inventions, only some of which were commercialized to any extent, famous names, many designes, all said to be great ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-10-16 03:30
"Also, in the quest for a sound like Marcellus, why is it that people don't use the same ligature he did?"
He used an inverted Bonade, which many still use.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-16 03:32
Marcellus also experimented with, and briefly used, an inverted Bonade with the center removed ...GBK
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2004-10-16 03:48
I know that I was using a plastic Luyben in 1965, so it does date to the 60's.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-16 04:02
Many Kaspar mouthpiece users also used Kaspar ligatures ...GBK
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2004-10-16 06:05
I have a picture of Marcellus from a Buffet catalog clearly with a Buffet lig
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-16 14:12
Yes, Hank, and earlier. The US patent to Winslow, 4,428,271 has a long list of the names [and #s] of fame [or otherwise]. The oldest pat I found, cited a few times, was granted to a Cadawaller [sp?] back in 1896. Yes, the most "active" period appears to be the 50-60's. Search USPTO, via ligature and a name, or just clarinet, which retrieved 50 for me. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-10-16 14:17
Besides experimenting with cutting out the center, Marcellus also experimented for a time with putting a thin layer of cork under the bands where it contacts the reed.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-16 14:34
Hi,
Actually, I did use an original Luyben and a Bonade inverted; I still have both ligatures and play them often. A modified Gigliotti is now my favorite, though.
HRL
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-10-16 22:49
In the '30s and '40s !! it was the plain two screw jobbie that came with the horn. One day one of the guys put his on with the screws on the top and created a monster. One of the guys in our Comm. Band has a Winslow. It's a monster with one screw sticking straight up on top.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-10-18 16:51
Marcellus also had a local Cleveland repairman, Conrad Kaufer, modify his inverted Bonade ligs. He used a process called "stretching" where the ligature was pulled and expanded to make it more pliant and ensure that the bands did not contact the reed edges. The metal plating on his ligs was cracked from the process.
I no longer use the Bonades because they are made very cheaply of plated brass, not the most pliant material. A solid silver or gold Bonade would be worth having.
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Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2004-10-18 17:11
Not that it matters, but I would estimate that Marcellus's tonal quality was probably about .0001% due to whatever ligature he used.
Isn't it amazing that no one has ever recreated his sound, despite decades of trying every possible permutation of equipment?
Of course the same would be true for Harold Wright or anyone else.
The most outstanding qualities of Marcellus and Wright were not in their sounds anyway, beautiful as they were.
Go forth and practice.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-18 17:46
Hi,
My Mark VI alto (1954 with a # M537xx) came with a C* Short Shank MP and a very cool ligature. See the attached photos. I still use this equipment often.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-10-18 18:27)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-10-18 20:11
When I was doing the research work on my patented ligature (4,796,507, issued back in the early 1980's), I went to the trouble to produce a copy of the (then well in public domain) Cadawaller version of same.
It was easy enough to produce the metalwork for same, it being nothing more than a couple of loops soldered to the screw side and socket side of a cut down "regular" ligature. However, his main fault was that the cord run between the two loops didn't bear equally against the bark of the reed, and that there was no way to make it work while still making it "adjustable". (Too much friction between the cord wrappings, if you will.)
There was a 1970's era ligature that was similar to the Cadawaller, with individual loops of cord borne against the reed from two tapered plastic brackets, adjusted by two thumbscrews. It worked fine as long as the taper of the mouthpiece matched the taper of the brackets. Trouble was, there were a lot of mouthpieces where the taper didn't match.
When I obtained my patent back in the 1980's, I would estimate that there were twenty other woodwind ligature patents issued in the same general time band. Everybody's got an idea about how to make things work better, and most of them are "novel" in the language of the Patent and Trademark Office. However, most still involved some rigidity of the ligature components, as opposed to the qualities of the original string or those patents like mine that used the string approach.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-10-18 21:23
Hank -
Thanks for the jpegs. In an old Clarinet magazine, there's a photo of Mazzeo using #37 on clarinet.
Terry -
Any chance for jpegs of your patent drawings, or of the lig itself?
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-18 22:15
Ken et al - Terry's pat 4,796,507 [ if I have copied these #'s OK !! ] and Terry, your pat is at least mentioned in 6,501,010 and 6,747,198 via my quickie search in USPTO using keywords, Stibal AND ligature. For all of these [after 1976] just click the "Images" [of the individual pat] and wait for the showing of the "figures". All of these have lengthy "laundry lists" of "art cited", mention by applicant, and perhaps discussion of "improvement" as a basis for paatentability. For those still interested !!, prepare for a lot of reading,. I'll be happy to help further !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-19 01:15
Hi Don,
I tried the # for Terry's patent, got the page but could not get any images. Any suggestions?
HRL
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-19 01:32
Hi Hank - It works for me, got the pat "up" went to the red IMAGES above, and then [slowly] the figures on the next several pgs came up. I have, I believe, the latest version of the Acrobat reader [maybe some others, I'm not skilled in this business !], and perhaps this is a problem. If this doesn't do it, go see some [possibly more] knowledgable surfers. A copy of this and ?nearly? every other US pat can be obtained from your P[at] D[ep] L[ib], by a visit or via your Ref. Librarian [or me !!]. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: brsmith
Date: 2004-10-19 15:56
My Bonade ligature dates back to around 1956. I used it for 40 years.
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