 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-06-15 15:30
An (Internet) acquaintance who plays clarinet with the Air Force Band in Washington, D.C. was notified yesterday that he was accepted into flight training school. He will be leaving the band, which would imply that a position with that band may be opening up.
By the way, they participated in President Reagan's funeral. They were at the airport when the body and family left to return to California.
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-06-15 16:16
That the main Air Force band, then? Heh, that reminds me of this past year, when we had a marine recruiter come in and talk to the band about the possibility of playing music with the military as a career or just for one enlistment. They, of course, tried to get us interested with telling us how much of a boost we'd have going in for other jobs, particularly in music education, saying we'd been part of "the President's own" and "the finest band in the world" (a little grandiose there, eh?), and that they'd pay for all your college if you decided to stay in for only one enlistment. So a lot of us are at least semi-interested, then someone asks if you have to supply your own instrument, and he tells us that we don't, that top of the line instruments are provided for you both at auditions and from then on if you make it. Interest is starting to build at this point, until a percussionist (who else?) raises his hand and asks "Will they train us?" The somewhat flustered man repeats that musicians in the armed forces don't have to go through basic training, and the percussionist interrupts him and says "No, I mean what if we're not the best player in the world. Or... if we can't play our instument worth beans. Will they teach us how to play it after hiring us?" And he wasn't even kidding. Only a percussionist, I suppose.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-15 18:49
I was told that I'd be given free lessons if I joined a military band (not presidents own). Hmmm . . . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-06-15 19:30
The service bands are incredibly generous with the taxpayers' money and do outfit their personnel well. I'm jealous of some of the nice new toys one of my Army Reserve Band buddies brings around (until I think about how little I enjoyed marching band, and then not so much).
Even so, you have to be genuinely capable to play in the President's Own. Those guys have chops going in, and the same is true for each of the premier service ensembles. Just have a look at the audition lists. I'm guessing SSGT Handsome'n'Ripped will tell you what you want to hear to get you interested in the Marines, but to be playing in DC you've got to be a legitimate pro-level player.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-15 19:56
Quote:
I'm guessing SSGT Handsome'n'Ripped will tell you what you want to hear to get you interested in the Marines, but to be playing in DC you've got to be a legitimate pro-level player. Which was proven in the OTHER thread in which the person who won that oh-so-sought after third trumpet spot was an ex "President's Own" trumpet player.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-06-15 22:08
Intersting career choice ... Post Edited (2004-06-20 22:06)
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-06-20 22:07)
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-06-16 04:04
In reality, just because there's an instrument vacancy doesn't mean it's going to get filled by THAT instrument. There are many variables and scenarios that can dictate a new instrumental slot opening. This guy that was accepted to OTS could be disqualified by a host of factors before he even ships. However, about 90% of the time auditions will be held and new clarinetists will be selected for and fill the position.
It is also not uncommon for the Band Commander or Senior Enlisted Personnel Manager (CMSgt) to play musical chairs and turn a clarinet slot into a vocal, guitar, oboe, etc. to meet a special personnel need or current instrumentation. Also, it is rare but the Commander can opt to reserve an instrumental slot for "internal active duty members" ONLY and hold auditions out of the Regional Bands in the Field, or even members from cross-service bands.
Not to worry, if there's going to be an upcoming "calling all cars" clarinet audition it will be announced and posted in due time on the U.S. Air Force Band's website. http://www.usafband.com/index.cfm
As for former President Reagan's funeral detail, all 5 DC premiere bands divided up the duties pretty evenly from what I saw ... in a grandioso behemoth such as this there's just too many factions and formations for one band to cover ... even a 100-piece premiere band with multiple performing groups and individual missions.
For instance, the choir that sung in Reagan's evening State Funeral in the Capital Rotunda was a combined choir of all 5 Service Bands (Singing Sergeants, Sea Chanters, Army Chorus/Chorale, etc) directed by Colonel Denny Layendecker, U.S. Air Force band Commander/Conductor. I was very happy to also see in one of the drive-by ceremonies the (one and only) Coast Guard Band came down from New England to contribute...a touch of class on their part when the local bands could've taken up the slack.
As for who's firing a weapon and who's holding an instrument, the short answer is the Air Force Field Bands are the only ones that stay in the "rear with the gear" as for being trained to be a musician first and fighting soldier 2nd, an Air Force bandsmen might deploy to a combat zone for up to 90 days but will never see combat. They do their time and get back on the plane. The other services (Army, Navy, Marines) in their Field band programs train their people to be soldiers first, as their primary duties, then a musician 2nd. That's the nature of those services, their mission priorities, who and what they are. They are however, full time musicians under normal circumstances unless ordered to trade in their horns for rifles.
v/r Ken
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2004-06-16 14:35
Army Band musicians (regardless of Premier or 'regular' bands) are in a non-combat job and also, if deployed, are working a musical mission for morale and troop support. They, like the Air Force Band members, will not see combat.
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Author: ebasta
Date: 2004-06-17 19:58
wait until the draft starts up again. until then, continue playing on the streets and in bars.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-06-17 22:22
With all due respect, ebasta, there's a lot of good things to be said about working as a military musician for a while, if not for an entire career. Living in the Washington, DC area as I do, there's hardly a gig when I'm not performing with several active-duty or retired or former military musicians, and for the most part they're excellent players --- versatile, well-schooled, and they appear to enjoy what they do. Most of them speak favorably of their time in the service and I've seen them benefit from the 'networking' opportunities that come from having played with other military musicians. The pay may be lousy (debatable, I suppose), but apparently lots of musicians survived the ordeal............
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Author: clarinetdaddy
Date: 2004-06-18 08:36
Okay its my turn,
As for what Heather Van Beek had said : I am sitting here in Baghdad A member of the 1AD Band and 1/2 of the band is pulling security guard as I am emailing. Yes, our mission should be playing for the morale of the soldiers but we are here mainly to support or augment the security of the base. As for seeing combat, yes we have seen it but not like in the front lines but when you are in convoy to a job site there is no protection except a 5-ton truck.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-06-20 00:37
what are the requirements for being a military musician, if any?
do most people go into to the military to serve as a musician right out of High School. If so, how many of them go to good music schools and do well?
I mean would being in a military band really truly develop my skills as a musician, or should i go to a music school right after high school.
Also, very important, after being in a military band, how much money on average would a person recieve for college afterwards if that person decided to move on to a civilian life.
by the way, none of this none of this is sarcastic or anything like that in any way, im just interested in this and trying to find the best way to travel to a succesful musical career.
thx
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-06-20 04:57
Also, mkybrain, questions 1 and 3 can be answered by visiting whatever military band website you are looking into (if you're interested in AF, look at AF bands. Army, look at army, etc.)
Just remember that any benefits, pay, pensions, etc. are pretty much a military=wide standard. Meaning, the pay you will get as an E-1 paygrade clarinet player, is the same as the pay you would get as an E-1 paygrade tank driver, and an E-1 paygrade computer technician (barring slight differences for things like 'hazardous assignments' and things like that.)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-06-20 06:01
We were told by the recruiter that you go in as roughly a SSGT, as far as pay goes, and you can't move up or down in ranking, so long as you stay with the band. With both my fathers (I mean, my father and step-father. Wouldn't want to be unclear on that...) having spent the last 10 years of their lives in the military, I can say that while it's not wonderful pay, it's not bad, either. For those of us seriously considering the military as an option with their promise to put you through college once you serve your time, the extra money that could be saved up during those 4 years is looking quite nice, especially if you don't have a family to support.
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Author: ebasta
Date: 2004-06-20 13:48
that's what i was trying to say. i didn't mean to insult any military members, in fact i believe that all returnees from overseas should get a parade, but like everything else--you have to be in the right place at the right time.
enough said
ed
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-06-20 17:44
GBK,
I think that people who follow your link should be aware that, "Most of the text in this notebook is drawn directly (with occasional slight editing) from the website of the Central Committee for Conscientious Objection (CCCO)" -- a group I suspect is just as biased as military recruiters.
Even if it is accurate, without explanation, I am rather skeptical of the statistic quoted for college benefits. Why don't they elaborate. Are enlistees being denied their college benefits because of red tape and technicalities (which, to me the tone of the comment suggests) or are many simply not claiming them because they choose not to attend college after their enlistment or don't have college loans to repay? IMHO, a more useful statistic would be the percentage of enlistees applying for the benefits who receive (or don't receive) them -- along with the reasons.
However, for high school students considering military bands, I think it also worth noting that, if the occasional reports in "The Clarinet" are any indication, the folks winning the good positions in the top bands generally already have bachelor's (and often master's) degrees in performance from good music programs. Even without the military benefits, the U.S. Army Field Band's starting salary range, around $38,600 - $41,500, is higher than the $32,000 - $35,000 a large state school was quoting a few years ago as the starting salary range for two music faculty positions requiring Ph.D.'s. That's enough to attract some pretty heavy hitters.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-06-20 19:05
i keep on reading that musicians have to go through basic training, but ive also heard (i think i read it in this thread) that they don't go through basic training.
Which is it?
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-06-20 20:50
mkybrain: The recruiter told us that so long as you go in as a musician, you don't go through basic training, but from what it sounds like, the recruiters are supposed to tell you whatever you want to hear. Maybe it's different for different branches? The recruiter that talked to our high school band was for the army.
Regarding the document GBK posted: That's unnerving if it's true, but there's not a lot of evidence that any of it is. Anyone could claim to have inside knowledge, access to statistics (that are never actually shared), and then make large blanket statements without supporting them, which is mostly what the document did. Hoping to get a real insider source that I could trust, I asked my father, who's been in the military for some time, as I already mentioned. He said that he could personally vouch for some of it (like the promise of education while in the service being worthless since few people have time to get that education) but had no clue on the rest. Incidentally, I remember reading somewhere that you (GBK) are ex-navy, as is Mark Charette (it may actually have been this thread, or the one linked to from here, I remember reading it recently), is this true? Perhaps you could give us a big of insider perspective? Until we have that, all we have is someone who wrote a document, saying "the military is bad, they'll never give you the money you promise, they're racist, they'll dehumanize you, and I'll bet they all have bad breath, too!" Coming from an AP English class, any of us would get nailed with a big fat F (or a fail on the actual AP exams) for writing that way, and I can only expect the same standards of a supposed professional source. If they can't give any evidence to support their sweeping claims, there's no reason to believe them.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-06-21 00:36
Igloo Bob wrote:
> Incidentally, I remember reading somewhere that you (GBK) are
> ex-navy, as is Mark Charette
My military experience was 6 months active duty as principal clarinetist in the 19th Army Band and 5 1/2 years as principal clarinetist in the 319th Army Reserve Band (as a "weekend warrior").
I did have to go through basic training.
I don't have any first hand information to either dispute or corroborate the claims made about "military promises" in the link I previously posted ...GBK
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-06-21 04:28
From that page:
"Bass Clarinet
Staff Sergeant Luke Tomkinson
SSG Luke Tomkinson has performed with the Grand Rapids Symphony, Midland Symphony Orchestra, Battle Creek Symphony Orchestra, and the Green Bay Symphony Orchestra. He earned a B.M. at Lawrence University and a M.M. at Michigan State University. SSG Tomkinson’s teachers have included Elsa Ludewig-Verdehr, Fan Lei, and Ted Oien. He currently performs with the Concert Band. "
Wow. And I've... made All-State a few times in 2 different states. Am I even close to being able to compete with him? Doubtful.
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Author: Greg
Date: 2004-06-21 14:50
Lots of people where I live ask me questions about this particular topic as I am a former Marine musician.
I am and always will be proud to have earned the title "Marine." Parris Island did wonders for me as I entered the Corps right out of high school. I took an awful lot of good knowledge away from the corps and am better for it.
However, do not join the Marine music program unless you are offered a spot in the Presidents Own. By the way, my clarinet section leader where I was stationed had a degree, experience, a note from Jesus, etc....and didn't get in.
I experienced the following with Marine Band:
1. College - Forget going to school if you're an active duty band member. When you get out and go to your prospective school, your veterans office will take their sweet time getting benefits to you. I worked for Cingular Wireless which reimbursed me for everything, books, tuition, etc. at the end of every semester as long as I had and "A" or "B" in the course. This was only offered to engineering, computer science, and business majors working for this company, but the military isn't the only source of college money.
2. Think you are going to go to a field band and play music? Wrong! I spent most of my work days behind a computer doing administration work for the band. They stick all members with time consuming collateral duties that you are expected to perform just as well as music.
3. What about travel and trips? That's where you will work the hardest. You're not on a trip to hang out, sightsee, or indulge. You're there to perform.....music for the most part.
4. Work environment - Dysfunction junction. need I say more?
5. Quality - Most marine field bands play at the level of your average high school band. I was attained the rank of Sergeant through high rifle and physical fitness test scores. My playing ability was a joke, but never got demoted.
6. Transfer back to civilian life - Once my superiors knew I was accepted at Georgia Tech and there was no turning back, I was deemed useless and tossed to the side. I had to request time off from our battalion commander for job interviews, college in - processing, finding a place to live, etc. The band folks in charge didn't care.
I highly recommend the Army or Air Force Bands for those of you interested. They are just plain better all around. Let it be known there are no music careers out here in the civilian world unless you want to teach. I recently graduated from Georgia Tech as an electrical engineer, hired on full time where I was Co-oping, and am very glad I decided to get out when I did. Best of luck to all.
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Author: chuck
Date: 2004-06-21 21:10
For answers to basic questions re: Military music, I would recommend a visit to <http;//www.bupers.navy.mil/navymusic/index.html>. Current practices of military enlistment, training, benefits, etc., don't vary much between the different services. The procedures outlined in the Navy Music Program should be fairly consistent no matter which one you may be interested in pursuing. I can not cite my experiences in that my time with the blue-suits was long ago. I do hope this will help. Chuck
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Author: tomkinsonl
Date: 2004-06-23 04:28
Hi Igloo Bob,
When I was in high school, over 6 years ago, I only made all state once.....so you're well on your way!
Luke Tomkinson
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2004-06-25 19:55
As far as the basic training issue is concerned, all Army band members do go to basic training. For the deployed bands mission, when it isn't feasible for them to play music for morale (unfortunately) they have to perform in a secondary capacity. They're working their rear ends off over there and I, for one, appreciate it very much - even if they're not playing music. We all take our turn. I could be next.
For audition requirements for Army band musicians and incentives please visit
band.goarmy.com
Post Edited (2004-06-25 19:56)
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-06-26 18:41
I scanned through the consciencentious objector article and couldn't help but think that free exchange of ideas is a glorious gift to mankind. However, based on my own military experience it was easy to detect the hidden agenda .... in spots, even perceived hate speech. I personally found it an offensive read, cleverly couched in deceptive riddles and fraught with trap door propaganda. What the authors missed if they were going to criticize the U.S. military is the real possibility of a "limited" draft in 2005 or 2006. DoD is essentially and already practicing a "back door draft" by saddling active duty, Reserve and National Guardists with extended tours of duty and pushing their contracts to the max. More, stop-loss programs for some career fields (Army in particular) remain in tact, never being rescinded from Sept. 11 directives.
There also seems to be conflicting information as for the specific role and mission requirements of U.S. Armed Forces Field-Regional bands and their Premiere Band mothership units (Washington DC-stationed bands, plus Academies, U.S. Army Field Band [a satellite premiere band] and the one Coast Guard Band). If my information and contacts are accurate (and it appears it is supported by active duty Field band members who have posted and currently assigned in these forward areas) the "Field bands" (EXCEPT Air Force Regional-Field bands) must maintain mandatory secondary duties, war skills, collateral duties .... all that are combat in nature or in support of combat missions. The Army Field bands essentially stay in a continual state of mobilization and on-call 24/7 for rotation and deployments to war zones. Specifically, they must be ready to deploy on 24-hours notice; immunizations, MOPP gear training (chemical gear), exercizes, range qualified, etc. must all be current.
To define terms, a "deployment" is categorized as a tour of duty that is 90 days or more (a TDY or "temporary duty" is 89 days or less ... this is primarily for pay purposes, i.e. hazardous duty pay, jump pay, war zone pay and daily perdiem rates). For instance, active duty members know that if you are on an authorized mission and fly over the air space of a declared war zone or hostile air space 30 days of your base pay is FITW "tax free". In a nutshell, Field bands can deploy to war-combat zones with a musical mission but with non-specific orders. Their mission, first and foremost is musical performance in support of troop-morale but they are subordinate to the bigger picture mission of their immediate chain of command. "Utilize" is order of the day; if gigs aren't on the schedule band members can be assigned shift work; guard duty, drive busses, work in the chow hall picking fly crap out of salt and pepper shakers, paint curbs or whatever the brass says .... PLUS juggle their musical duties of blowing daily reville, retreat, feature-dance combos, and background dinner music at the base clubs. In the hiearchy, field bands are the work horses and backbone of the military bands.
Conversely, Premiere Bands and "Air Force Field bands" are normally NOT in a constant state of heightened readiness. They can most certainly deploy overseas (and do when rarely called upon) however for a specific period of time and on a "musical mission only". That and it takes a lot of money, time and enormous resources to move a 60 to 100-piece band to the Middle East, western or East Bloc Europe. A band Operations noncommissioned officer (booking agent or personal manager) can coordinate all facets of these tours; logistics, air/ground support, lodging and perdiem months before the band ever packs a bag (even advancing the tour). In comparison, Premiere bands serve as Bob Hope shows … get in, do the gig and get out hopefully with your butt in once piece.
What bearing does all this rederic have on the clarinet and music?? With America's continued war on terrorism, if you love playing, are of draft-able age, 18 to 35, a pro-quality working musician or educator, and if you are not in a college degree program and/or carrying a full load you could be vulnerable for the draft. If it was me I would at the very least keep my options open (unless you could care less and gainfully looking north or south). Maybe even consider taking a military band audition (Reserve and National Guard bands are also viable organizations to serve part time). An enterprising clarinetist might literally "dodge a bullet" going this route. I can report firsthand after working for Air Force Recruiting Service the past 15 months (retired administrator in Civil Service) they have recently slammed the door tightly on new recruits and reduced quotas for 2005 and 2006 (except thankfully the band and nursing career fields). The USAF slashed their Fiscal Year (FY) 2006 quotas from 35,000 to 24,000. More, they have met 99.8% of 2005 recruiting goals (34,400 of 35,000) and it's only June 2004. I cannot speak factually of recruiting for the other services. I do know the door traditionally has been pretty wide open for the Field, the Premiere bands are the cream, boast a higher quality musician, and tougher organizations to get a job with.
I wish to extend the utmost respect and admiration to our Armed Services musicians (and all others) serving in harms way. I dedicated 24 years of my life to my country and service of choice and dearly hold mine own in the highest esteem and as monumental heroes in my heart. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2004-06-27 15:22)
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Author: Ben
Date: 2004-06-27 01:51
Regarding the draft, I think more people should be talking about it. [off-topic section deleted - Mark C. ].
Didn't Larry Combs and a number of other fine musicians play in stateside military bands during Vietnam? Could they have auditioned for this after being drafted, or would that have been too late?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-06-27 02:00
Ben wrote:
> Regarding the draft,
Please don't wander that direction - keep the thread music-related or career-related only.
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