 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bobmester
Date: 2004-02-08 18:53
I usually practice here and there during the day and do this everyday so there are times when I don't disassemble my clarinet. I understand that this can compress the cork on the tenon and let the sections wobble, as mine certainly do.
Question is - is there a method to decompress the cork? Heat or moisture or just resting the cork with the instrument apart?
Thanks in advance.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-02-08 21:07
The ideal is to replace it.
Another option is to heat over a flame or other means, with or without water or grease on the cork at the time of heating.
Risks include melting the plastic of the body, damaging the cork's adhesive, turning the cork (depending on it's quality) into a lumpy mess, and especially charring the cork! This is very, very easy to do, and the presence of cork grease or water probably lessens the chance of charring. Hold the tenon well above the flame and move the tenon around to avoid localised heat.
Some (most?) cork greases damage the structure of the cork, allowing it to easily become permanently compressed. I suggest Syntek from Doctor's Products to lessen damage to the cork after it is replaced.
Note that some joints wobble a lot more than others, on account of an over-loose fit between the tenon and its socket.
Post Edited (2004-02-08 21:07)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-02-08 21:09
Applying white, teflon, plumbers' tape firmly around a loose tenon is a very effective way of curing a loosely fitting tenon cork. Clean the cork first.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-08 22:33
I think the best method I've heard on this board (I don't remember if it was recently or something that I was searching on) was taking a butter knife out of a small pot of boiling water and rubbing the butter knife around the cork. It puts a little moisture in there as well as does the job of heating it up.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ray
Date: 2004-02-09 01:00
I've had some success puffing up the cork by heating my butter knife with my butane torch. I have no idea how hot it gets, but its more than 212 F.
I apply water liberally to the cork and give it a little time to soak in. Then rub the heated knife around the cork. There is usually a lot of sizzling - I think the steam puffs up the cork.
I really don't have a feel for how long this measure lasts.
I have been using 1/16" Gasket Seal composite cork for tenons. It is a neoprene and cork gasket material sold in auto supply stores (AutoZone). It is softer than cork, so you can leave the composite cork a little fatter on the tenon that you would with real cork. With good cork grease the joint still goes together easily, but seems to make a more solid connection. And I think it resists compression better.
I don't really have facts because I have only been using it about a year.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-02-09 14:56
Ray, what adhesive do you use with the Gasket Seal?
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Author: growlingbunny910
Date: 2004-02-09 15:58
I ran into the reverse problem. My Buffet R13 had corks way too tight. I lightly rubbed them with a fine flat file. Is there a better solution?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-02-09 19:41
I wouldn't get too excited about the composite gasket cork for tenons.
There would be very few technicians who consider this type of cork as more suitable for tenons than quality natural cork, even though the high quality versions of it (usually NOT from auto shops) can be ideal for some other locations such as stack key linkages on saxophones.
Although it is very resilient, too much force is required to compress it as the instrument is assembled. Another problem is that the surface has much higher friction than natural cork, making assembly of the instrument difficult. It also retains cork grease poorly.
The only exception I can think of for using it is when the cork groove has been cut too deep. A 0.4 mm layer of composite beneath the natural cork deals with this problem.
'Contact adhesive' (basically rubber plus solvent) is used for tenon corks. These adhesives vary a lot in quality/sutiability, but for a large area such as a tenon cork, the demands are not too high. I have tried many, the best in my experience being Evostik, made in UK by Bostik Findley Ltd, and probably unavailable in USA.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-10 01:52
Growling bunny,
Sounds good. That's prbably what anyone would've done!
Alexi
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2004-02-10 05:05
> I have been using 1/16" Gasket Seal composite cork for tenons. It is a
> neoprene and cork gasket material sold in auto supply stores
> (AutoZone). It is softer than cork, so you can
This kind of cork is ok for the do-it-yourself er, but can fall apart in as little as 6 months if any type of oil or too much cork grease is used.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-02-10 08:58
There is enormous range of quality in composite cork products.
The top quality composites used on woodwind instruments, such as Gummycork, TechCork, and (Yamaha's) Hycotex, are of the type used in huge, city power supply transformers, which are oil-filled and working hot. Oil & grease will NOT make them fall apart. I have done tests. In general, the high quality material can be firmly doubled over and creased without splitting or breaking up. .
But I still would not use them as tenon corks. Although they are a very high performance materials, they do not have appropriate properties for tenon cork.
And much of the automotive gasket material is nowhere near this quality.
If you must use composite cork for trenons, may I suggest that available from.....
http://www.musicmedic.com/index.html
It won't fall apart!
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-02-10 09:32
I simply let the cork soak in a glass of water for 30 or 40 minutes. It solves the problem every time.
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Author: Ray
Date: 2004-02-10 15:11
Bobd - I use contact cement, usually DAP Weldwood.
GordonZ - I hate to disagree about Gasket Seal because I respect your experience and advice so much and everybody will think I'm a real fool for doing so. But, looking foolish has never been enough of a deterrent.
I bough some TechCork from Ferree's in the 1/4" size. It turns out to be very soft, such that using it under the A or G# key is a mistake. It compresses to something like 50%. I can shred it with a thumbnail. I wouldn't think that a 1/16" TechCork would be useful for tenon corks because of its lack of structural integrity. (Momma always said to throw in a few three syllable words to build confidence in your audience.) But, I've never used it.
Gasket Seal is a brand name found at the Autozone stores. It has a lot of neoprene in it, and the cork particles are quite small. It works like cork, but it takes more time to sand to shape because of the rubber. It is intended for use inside an automobile engine, where conditions are usually more severe than inside a clarinet. (I have used it on eefers and I admit to being a little worried about that.)
It does not have the negative qualities you list. With Selmer Tuning Slide & Cork Grease, or better yet DoctorsProducts Syntek, assembly is smooth and easy. No unusual force is needed. With Gasket Seal the cork particles are exposed, not coated in any way, so that they seem to retain the grease as well as natural cork.
I haven't had any failures yet, either.
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Author: growlingbunny910
Date: 2004-02-10 19:31
Thanks Alexi..........I was just worried I might riun it, but I was careful and it is still snug. Before, it was almost impossible to pull apart. I'm surprised the factory let it escape in that condition.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-02-10 22:24
TechCork is not available from Ferrees.
Ferrees' disgusting product (I agree!) is called 'HyTek Cork', NOT 'TechCork'.
Ferrees should be ashamed of their shameless promotion of this substandard product!
http://www.ferreestools.com/HyTek%20RealCork.htm
The Gasket Seal TRADE NAME cork you mention is probably one of the high quality versions, which is what one would expect with neoprene.
However this will not apply to any gasket seal cork product from an automotive shop. Many will be just as disgusting as Ferrees' product.
Yes, your Gasket Seal will work OK if you manage to get the thickness accurate for the situation to perhaps 1/1000". You may have struck it lucky, or spent a lot of time adjusting it. For the average person, adjustment to this accuracy will be close to impossible while maintaining roundness to the same accuracy.
Post Edited (2004-02-10 22:25)
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