 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-04 14:05
I'm considering buying two different Leblancs at auction (before anyone says anything, yes, I know all about the pitfalls of buying sight-unseen ). I've done my reading around - both on here (isn't the search facility a wonderful thing ) and generally on the Internet - and cannot decide which would be the more worthwhile instrument to go for. So, I thought I'd ask for a little advice, if you wouldn't mind?
One is an Esprit 1040, I don't know the age (I'm just emailing the vendor to ask). The other is a Symphonie Model (I know about the differences between the different versions of the Symphonie, thanks to all the archived posts here!), serial 531A - which presumably puts its manuf. date at around the early '50s. I know the Symphonie was a professional model, and apparently the Esprit an entry-level professional, but I really don't know which of these would be the "better" (I know, I know, "better" is a subjective term) model clarinet to bid for?
Assuming all things are equal (ie, assume both are in an equally good cosmetic/mechanical condition), can anyone offer any advice as to which might be considered the "better" instrument, please?
thanks
Helen
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-02-04 14:31
Helen: I assume you have heard the definition of assume....
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-04 14:43
*grin* yep ... perhaps I should have substituted the word "presume" then ...
Donkey or no donkey, I'd still appreciate some advice ...
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-02-04 14:57
Leblanc may like to describe the Esprit as an entry-level professional, but its current UK pricing is on a par with, or below, that of the Buffet E-13. That makes it an intermediate clarinet, in my book. The Symphonie, however, is priced to compete with Buffer Prestiges.
Of course, that's how it is now. Might have been quite different when these instruments were made.
Also check that you are happy with the keywork designs. I _think_ I'm right in saying that the Esprit has rather unusual keywork. Don't know about the Symphonie, but most likely it is the same as my Concerto: perfectly ordinary. Again all this might have changed over the years.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-02-04 17:49
Helen, the Symphonie (the original one) was my first really fine Clarinet (ca. 1951). I played it for many years and have regretted many times that I no longer have it. I'm wondering about the serial number "A" suffix. Is it an A-pitch Clarinet?
Regards,
John
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-05 07:18
Hi John -
No, I've read somewhere in the archives here that the early models were given the 'A' suffix, and then after a while Leblanc switched their serial numbering methods (to start with a "1", if memory serves ... I read a LOT of posts from the archive yesterday!).
Only difficulty now is that a Symphonie IV has now appeared in the running for much the same price as the Symphonie ... so ... I'm assuming that the IV is the better bet of the two??
Thanks for the info (and to David too).
cheers
Helen
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-05 07:36
The different models just mean a newer production. I think they're up to the Symphony VII or VIII now. Not necessarily better though. I mean if there was enough reason to produce a Buffet R13 Vintage (which was a "new" clarinet that was modeled off of the old '50s R13's) I find that proof enough that a new design doesn't always mean more well liked. Apparently there was enough feedback left and enough demand to warrant a recent production of an "old school" model.
Also look at the new Mustang coming out! Nothing to do with clarinet, but the new Ford Mustang is a throwback to the very first models (and looks great in my eyes!) Further proof that just cause it's an old design doesn't mean it's any worse or better.
Unfortunately the main test would be playing them. And with auctions, you often don't get the opportunity to do much of that. let alone be able to test them side by side with another. GL on your choice.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-05 11:47
Alexi: Ah. True. Oh rats. There was I, blithely assuming that because the Symphonie was such a good model, Leblanc could only have improved on it each model up the line, ergo the Symphonie IV MUST be an improvement upon the original Symphonie.
But you have a very good point. So now ... how do I know? (actual instruments conditions etc aside, that is.) Which was the "better" model ... the Symphonie or the Symphonie IV?
You're quite right of course, the real test would be to play them ... but, given the distance involved (and the cost of flights from the UK to the US ), that's unfortunately not possible.
Anyone, please??
cheers
Helen
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-05 17:51
Thanks JG ... can you say why, please? Why the Symphonie over the Symphonie IV? (assuming you meant that, rather than over the Esprit, which I've already decided not to buy)
cheers
Helen
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-02-05 20:13
ALL Leblanc's 'Symphonie' clarinets are excellent. The best 'Symphonie' I've ever played was their 'Symphonie 3'.
Instruments marked 'Symphonie Model' had an 'A' at the end of the serial number but that was not an indication of the pitch.
Also, I've seen clarinets marked just 'Symphonie' without any number. I don't really know which one is so called the 'original Symphonie'. Both ('Symphonie Model' and the 'Symphonie') were made in 1950. Later (1951-1952) Leblanc dropped the 'A' suffix, but in 1960 their 'Dynamic 2' had 4-digit serial number and the suffix 'B' at the end.
Esprit or Symphonie? - (R13 or E13?)
I'd go with the Symphonie.
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician
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Author: Helen
Date: 2004-02-05 20:52
Thanks very much Vytas .. but .. Symphonie Model or Symphonie IV? Was the IV any improvement on the Symphonie Model, do you know??
thanks
Helen
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-02-05 21:39
>>>>Symphonie Model or Symphonie IV?<<<<
Symphonie IV. It has better/harder keywork.
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-02-06 00:36
Helen,
I think either one would be a good clarinet. I've overhauled 50's LeBlanc Symphonie's and found them to be fairly free blowing with surprisingly good intonation compared to other manufacturers of the same time period. As Vytas states, the Symphonie will probably have nickel-silver keys that are not plated whereas the Symphonie IV keys will have plating (although I'm not really sure that they are softer just because they aren't plated). I think you are overlooking the Classic. The Classic is a nice clarinet also. (In my opinion a little better than the Classic II produced later that was, in my opinion, only a little better than an intermediate offering).
Good luck with your choices.....and keep in mind that most auction clarinets will need repair work even though advertised in "excellent" condition. Ask lots of questions, especially about the same serial number matching on both joints, cracks or evidence of repaired cracks, split tenon timber, deep scratches on keys or body, etc.
jbutler
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-02-06 03:32
In the early 50's Leblanc slightly changed their keywork and the logo.
Basic keywork shape after the change is almost the same but the change especially is noticeable on the thrill and 'banana' keys. New keys are much thicker and wider than the older ones.
The older logo had the G. on the same line as Leblanc. The G. was moved up (above Leblanc).
Vytas Krass
Pro clarinet technician
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