 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-02-04 03:59
I guess this is common through out all social structure but I feel the need to rant about it. Why can't we all just get along? Does it really matter who is the better player or who wins the auditions? I have been the members of many different social groups and I have to say that I have found the Clarinet groups to be some of the most vicious. Now I am not talking about here but more so of my expierence as a clarinetist (college and under). I don't really quite understand why it has to be this way. We should be happy that we love to do the same thing, play clarinet and make music.
Is it possible for burnt bridges to be restored or atleast a smaller bridges in the place of the big one? With the route that classical music is taking in this economy I don't think there are enough of us anymore to really be battling like we have.
I'm here to say that I am going to drop the every single little grudge I have had as a clarinet player towards another for the sake of enjoying music. Is there anyone else who is willing to do the same?
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Author: ksclarinetgirl
Date: 2004-02-04 04:07
Absolutely!! All throughout high school, these other two girls that I competed with did everything that they could to antagonize me. We were taking lessons from the same teacher, and we always played in clarinet choir and trios or quartets together. I was always on first part, because I was honestly the teacher's pet, whether I liked it or not. They always resented me for that. Finally our senior year they realized that I didn't enjoy all of the attention and pressure our teacher put on me, and we started to bond based on our common dislike of our teacher (note where I'm from and you'll realize there's not a lot of selection around where I'm from). Everything went much better music-wise after we started to get along, and we had a lot more fun.
Sorry, I like to tell stories Anyway, my point is, instead of focusing on differences in opinions and methods, we should unite based on the fact that we all love to play beautiful music! Call me naive, but that's my two cents.
Stephanie :o)
"Vita Brevis, Ars Longa"
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-02-04 05:14
Sectionals can help the situation, especially if they are voluntary (lunch after, anyone?), and ESPECIALLY if a professor comes to help from time to time. Really helps to get to know people.
As for competition, I've always felt like I was given a spot that matched my performance at the audition. Thankfully, the other clarinetists always seem to feel the same. If I didn't get the chair I wanted, It's obviously due to slacking off at some time.
What also helps is the level playing field one of my professors instills. He has a lot of really cool musical and technical suggestions, and they all take years to even start to get the hang of. That said, everyone is picked on equally, from first chair to last, and everyone can see improvement in themselves and each other when they follow the suggestions. It's all very helpful and constructive, and everyone feels like they're in the same boat. Anyone who has been in his ensembles and master classes for more than a semester or so has something to relate to, as well as something to keep busy instead of worrying about status quabbles. I find that the times I have gotten into competitive grudges (i.e. high school) are always the times when I think I know all there is to know. Idle minds, you know.
The few times that there are grudges, from what I've found, are when two entities are both concerned with being upwardly mobile, rather than playing the music. I've found little correlation between the "upwardly mobile" personalities and high seating (unless their drive makes them practice more than anyone else). Rather, those who simply focus on the music tend to do equally well, and are often better ensemble players... and they are the ones who enjoy it and free themselves of grudges; the ones who are a pleasure to sit next to.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-02-04 05:14
I really and truly don't relate to the "battles" you're talking about, LeOpus.
To lay a little preface to my response:
Beginning in grammar school, I went on to play in H.S. band and orchestra (two years each), local symphony orchestra (three seasons), military (USAF) band (four years), lcoal dance bands and improvizational outfits and nightclub small combo settings (eleven years). I feel that's enough to allow me to make a couple of comments.
First; maybe my experience is unique, but I hope not.
I've always gotten along with other musicians - including, believe it or not, other clarinetists. Some players were (are) better than I will ever hope to be while others I've been fortunate enough along the way to be able to encourage and help. I only met, during my entire experience to this day, two musicians who were so 'stuck up' -- I couldn't communicate with them. Both were pianists, both preferred to work solo... which in itself was a very good thing for the rest of us
While some of this applies to many musical situations, I'd like to comment about nightclub work because I'm most (long time ago - recently, so to speak) familiar with that aspect of the music business. Vying for work can become pretty cutthroat at the nightclub level. Come what may, you need to put on your pleasant demeanor when you're 'on stage'. Even with all the backstabbing, rumor spreading and underhanded manipulative attempts at job-stealing. I didn't outright not like a person for trying to do that. We just never got to be as good acquaintences as we might have been otherwise. It's a little disappointing to find out a person percieves a need to do that, rather than just being good at being a musician. The first time I was aware of it, I was a little puzzled and somewhat dismayed. The next time or two it was kinda funny... in a sad way of being funny - like a joke that bombs. No one knows quite what to say. Fortunately, in my little corner of the musical universe, those events were few and far between. Mark C. probably could add a few "war stories", right, Mark?
I've never burnt a bridge and don't intend to do so. I'll never have to bother with re-constructing one. There are better ways to spend your time....
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
___________________
( No one was ever successful at stealing my job, by the way
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-02-04 11:54
Concerning cliques -
You will find the sort of people you look for, in most any organization.
You don't get to choose your family, but you certainly choose friends.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-02-04 15:30
Rite, BobD, It took a bit of time to figure out that we [y'all] were talking about cliques rather than strange sounds. Sorry, Mark to "seem to" correct spelling, its just that the two very- differing words share the same pronunciation! Just one of several shortcomings of our Englih/American language, as in My Fair Lady. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-02-04 16:37
Thanks for bringing the discussion back in formation, Don
Cliques and clicks are used interchangeably out here (west coast) so much that most of us just take it in stride without blinking. Whichever way you spell/pronounce it, the context determines the meaning.
What to do about the annoying cliques (kleeks)...
I've found that, unless you have a burning desire to be part of one, you can just let 'em gravitate around themselves 'til they implode. That's the usual cycle. They tend to evaporate rather easily since there's so little substance to begin with.
- ron b -
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-02-04 19:37
I have never experienced such cliques or been outcast out of any groups. However that is my personality. True you tend to get along with certain people better than others, but I've never been despised or avoided (at least not to my knowledge) because I'm one of those guys that always has a smile on my face and is very approachable.
The only time I felt a little friction between another clarinetist and I was when I beat out a senior for first chair my first year in the band as a freshman (not a hard feat because our school wasn't the greatest musical school around, however I was still pretty proud). However to ease it a bit (and since it didn't matter THAT much to me) I let her play the solos that year and sit in the first chair position. As long as I had the fun first part I was happy enough! Plus I had three more years to sit up front and have a solo here and there whereas she had been waiting for her HS career to sit in that chair.
Other than that one half a year, I never really felt like there were cliques. However I have never been in a very very competative situation like a conservatory and I can see why something might happen there. Whether it be jealousy of someone better, fear of losing your position to someone else, etc.
As for whatever your situation would be, I would just say not to worry about it. Continue concentrating on enjoying your music and try to be civil and maybe some of those bridges might start rebuilding themselves (and subtle brown-nosing would help, but it depends how badly you need that bridge!)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-02-04 20:32
I read two-thirds of the way through this thread thinking, "Gee, usually it's missing a little piece of cork."
We're here to give and receive help, each to and from all others. Some seem not to enjoy accepting that. Too bad for them. Some write suggestions as if the wrath of God is in them (diz: it's a figure of speech), and some do not. It is up to the reader to accept what is good and reject what is not good, same as anywhere else, writer's attitude notwithstanding. Any attitude expressed by the writer is only the writer's. No one ever has to accept attitude. Great advice might be offered with stinko attitude, and kind attitude may accompany rotten suggestions. If you refuse to accept anything just because you believe it was said or written harshly, you might be missing a lot of good stuff.
Every profession has cliques... good, not good, and mediocre. Unless you enjoy doing everything by yourself, I suggest you pick a clique that suits you and enter it. If its members don't want you, it doesn't suit you.
Regards,
John
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2004-02-05 04:57
Hey, I'm just glad the topic isn't "...what to do about annoying geeks..."
We know who we are.
Which reminds me, there was a thread about the merits of stuffing Teflon tape in the holes for the pivot screws vs. using very heavy grease. I finally bought some of the really heavy gunk Dr. Slick sells and it works great for quieting clicks. Perhaps you could use some to quiet the annoying cliques, too.
One way not to be too competitive is to play alto clarinet. Not much competition and no solo parts (for people my skill level, anyway.) However, I always played Bb during marching season. My senior year, the band director made me a third clarinet for marching season. He placed my 10th grade brother in with the first clarinets. He had never heard him play. I couldn't believe it. Not only did I know all the first clarinet parts, I could hit the high notes cleanly, in time, in tune and loud. In contrast, my brother sounded like a chicken with something caught in its throat. The band director simply observed that I was getting B's while my brother had all A's in his Jr. High band. Besides, he noted, I wasn't going to pay any attention to my assigned section – I had always played the first clarinet parts during marching season and sometimes I changed parts during concert season, too.
That was, in fact, the main reason I got B's in band. Partly this was from boredom and partly because my eyes were so bad I couldn't see the music. He almost never said anything to me because he had his hands full with kids who played late, out of tune, out of key, or who sounded like they were falling down stairs.
That wasn't the point. Everybody would know my brother was seated ahead of me! Oh my God. How could I march out onto the football field with the third clarinets and with my brother marching with the first clarinets.
My brother, who had trained all his friends to call me BDB -- big, dumb brother – and who hated me because I could drive and he couldn’t, went to the director and actually argued for switching parts with me. The director said there would be plenty of time for that after marching season – when we would both be alto clarinets..
So I quit the band. I got to watch half time shows. I learned that no student in the crowd paid the slightest attention to the band. (I'm sure things have changed since 1968.) My brother went on to become a first rate ping pong player. His Bb clarinet was stolen during his senior year, much to everyone’s relief. He never played again.
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Author: mags
Date: 2004-02-05 08:45
The more I know of people...The more I love my dog xx
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-02-05 23:12
What if these cliques are all in our minds? What if we see other clarinetists, and immediately think we are in competition with them, that they're against us, they're out to win all the auditions that we want. I always felt like every other clarinetist was against me. Then, I started talking to them - they were just at the auditions because, just like me, they wanted the experience of playing in that particular youth orchestra or whatever it was.
Now that I am older and I am the one that the younger less experienced clarinetists may be ever so slightly afraid of or intimidated by before a big audition, I make an effort to talk to them and make them feel more 'at home' in the warm-up room. And just to kinda let them know 'May the best man win'. Younger players, especially teenagers, can take things the wrong way, especially when nothing is said about it; they tend to 'disaster-ize'.
Point is, don't be so quick to blame others when cliques happen; maybe the problem is with oneself.
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Author: ClaRiNeT_CaNdY
Date: 2004-02-06 10:34
yEa!! I'm constantly competing against my best friend who sits right next to me @ the first stand. Our standard is pretty much the same, just that my rhythm is better than hers. I can tell that she always wants to be better than me, and deep down, i want to be better than her too. It's just competition, but we get along pretty well.
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