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Author: hans
Date: 2004-01-17 02:03
At the school where I volunteer, we started up the jazz band today for the first time. The sax section made up the front row as usual, but the two tenors were seated at the ends of the row. The last time I played in a big band was quite a few years ago, and we sat the tenor saxes together then. I asked the music teacher afterwards why she used this arrangement, and she said that this was currently the standard jazz band seating system and that it improved the sound somehow.
I would like to understand this better, if anyone has insights into this, because it makes no sense to me.
Hans
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-01-17 02:19
You made me try to recall the seating orders I experienced, Hans. I believe that always the 1st alto was between the 3rd alto and 2nd tenor, but the [separated] seating of 4th tenor and 5th bari varied, I believe to put the bari in front of the tmbs, not the tpts. Does that make sense? Others, help. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Burt
Date: 2004-01-17 03:01
The jazz bands I have seen and played in (starting from audience's left):
guitar
2nd tenor
3rd alto
1st alto
4th tenor
5th bari.
If the group you're referring to doesn't have a bari, then the tenors are on the ends of the sax line.
The trombones were behind the saxes, and the trumpets were behind the trombones.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2004-01-17 03:41
"I asked the music teacher afterwards why she used this arrangement, and she said that this was currently the standard jazz band seating system and that it improved the sound somehow."
With these sort of dogmatic statements it sounds like this teacher has learnt it all from a book.
I play professionally with a number of big bands. The first of these is a 10 piece and the saxes are arranged:-
Audience
2nd Alto- Lead Alto -Tenor
Another uses the following arrangement:-
Audience
Baritone-2nd Alto-Lead Alto-1st Tenor- 2nd Tenor
Still another uses:-
Audience
2nd Tenor- 1st Tenor- Lead Alto- 2nd Alto- Baritone.
I would suggest, as predominantly either a lead alto or 1st tenor player, that keeping the two tenors next to each other aids cohesion. The same can be said for the two altos. As to which side the tenors or baritone go it may be wise to put the baritone close to the trombones, as stated above, as in some modern arrangements the baritone often plays with the trombones. In some older arrangements the tenors often have interplay with the trombones while the baritone is often just fattening out the section by doubling the lead. In 4 sax sections the 2nd tenor often fulfils this function. There is no absolute dogmatically correct way of doing this.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-01-17 16:17
Don, Burt, and Mark,
Thanks for your replies. (This band has no baritone 5th sax.)
Burt, do you know of the rationale for splitting the tenor saxes this way? That's what's got me wondering.
Bands I have played in always used a configuration similar to what Mark Pinner described. It worked fine and, as Mark wrote, "aids cohesion", although we never tried other configurations for comparison.
I can think of a reason for seating the tenors (2nd and 4th) next to each other: if the 2nd sax gets the hiccups, loses a pad, etc., the 4th can easily take over his/her part and minimize the disruption.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-01-17 17:56
Most bands that I've seen were, stage left to stage right:
Bari
4th Tenor
Lead Alto
3rd Alto
2nd Tenor
A couple of reasons why it makes sense:
1 - Lead Alto is placed in the middle of the sax section were everyone can (hopefully) hear him well
2 - The tenors (primary jazz soloists) are placed far enough apart to add some showmanship to two-tenor duels...a big tradition with the Basie and Herman bands.
3 - Bari Sax is in close proximity to bass trombone (also usually seated all the way left), since their parts are often nearly identical.
4 - 2nd Tenor (primary jazz soloist) is placed in close proximity to the rhythm section.
This is a terrific way to set up a sax section--particulary in bands where the horn section is in three rows front-to-back.
I currently play in a group that sets up saxes L to R:
Bari
4th Tenor
3rd Alto
2nd Tenor
1st Alto
Why? Lead alto is the bandleader and it helps to have him located by the rhythm section.
This is primarily for situations where horns are in three rows front-to-back, and rhythm section is located to the right of the band. Some configurations may merit adjustment if the band is more spread out--for example the Welk or Shaw bands were brass are in two rows and saxes are co-located with string players.
Allen Cole
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Author: mamashep
Date: 2004-01-17 18:41
I've played in jazz bands that seat the saxes in any sort of order that you can imagine, including the configuration that you mentioned.
I think the reasoning behind seating the saxes as you mentioned (tenor - alto - alto - tenor) is so that the voicings with the trombones line up better. For example, in a group with three trombones sitting right behind the saxes, sitting in the mentioned configuration lines up like this (from left to right):
2nd tenor = 3rd trombone (they are the parts that usually have the "out there" dissonant voicings that are harder to hear in the chord)
2nd alto, 1st alto = Lead trombone (this lines up the lead players in the sections, and 2nd alto usually playes a pretty close harmony to lead alto)
1st tenor = 2nd trombone (they usually have the same type of parts that are consonant, but not the melody)
If bari and bass tromb are present, they line up.
By doing this, the saxaphone players hear the corresponding voicings that are happening in the sections behind them, and also more complex chords are easier to hear within the section.
I don't know about you, but I am always a little uncomfortable when I am sitting 2nd tenor right next to 1st tenor, and having to play whole lines that are minor 2nds apart.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-01-17 19:17
Allen and Lori,
Thank you very much for the clarifications. It makes sense to me now too.
Regards,
Hans
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