 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2003-12-23 23:47
This must sound a bit silly to the players out there...but, I've read where almond oil is a sound choice for the Greneadilla bore. So I went to the drugstore where I found pure almond oil with a hint of vitamin E. My question is, does it matter? Can ya get the oil sans the E? Any other ideas?
Fred
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-24 00:04
Well the good news is that if you use that almond oil plus vitamin E, if your clarinet ever grows hair, at least it'll be very HEALTHY hair with lots of shine!
I'm sorry. I'm tired and when I hear about vitamin E all I think about is hair and skin. And there's less of a chance of your clarinet growing skin.
I don't know what the vitamin E would do. I'd say I'm 99% sure that it won't hurt your clarinet, but there might be someone else who can verify that last percent, or prove that I'm wrong 99% of the time in this issue.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-12-24 00:24
The vitamin E is supposed to help keep the oil from becoming rancid.
I bought and used pharmaceutical grade almond oil on a few instruments, and have no complaints. Even though I did a lot of oiling (even a dried up old bass clarinet) I didn't use up the tiny bottle. Now its rancid and it stinks and I threw it out. (Mine didn't have vitamin E.)
Then I bought some Bore Doctor from the Doctor. It smells much nicer and won't become rancid. The Doctor's description of his oil mixture makes me believe its better for my clarinets. I like it.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-12-24 00:38
You really can't go wrong with Doctor's Products.
ALexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2003-12-24 02:51
Almond oil does encourage bacteria growth on the wood I heard.. whether there is vitamin E added or not.
But then again bacteria don't harm the wood.. =p
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-12-24 03:13
I have used lots of it. I recently discovered that using it on the outside of a clarinet is not good.
Clarinets stored in a humid environment or not climate controlled will grow fungus on the outside.
I still use it on the bore.
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2003-12-24 04:29
I just took a long hard look at the Doctor's site. Everything looks good...is everything "good", cause I'm ready to order and I believe you guys know what's what!
Fred
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Author: David
Date: 2003-12-24 09:30
Not actually tried his stuff, but I have never ever seen a bad word here about the Doctor. Give the Search function a whirl, and have a look.
And Happy Christmas to everyone.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-24 10:45
The word is that vitamin protects against rancidity for only a short time.
If you search on this site for all that Doc has researched and written on this issue, you will surely be convinced that his product is vastly superior to simple almond oil, with or without vitamin E. I sure have had quite enough examples of rancidity with other products, including almond oil, to well and truly put me off them.
If you cannot trust Doc on this, I don't know who in the world you could trust.
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2003-12-24 16:30
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
> If you cannot trust Doc on this, I don't know who in the world
you could trust.
Dear Gordon, I've been reading old posts for the past four hours...what a education! Yes, the Doc is the way to go for many items, Thank you so much.
Fred
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-12-24 17:05
Still - what does the smallest bottle of Almond Oil cost at your grocer?
I bought my bottle three years ago, and keep it out of daylight.
Still clear, and it does the job nicely.
Not bad for $3 USD.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-24 21:08
The problem is the rancidity when it does inevitably set in. Three years in the bottle is a pretty superficial test, especially when in the bottle it is not exposed to bacteria, fungi, and the destructive enzymes in saliva. Indeed, it is no test at all.
I am not sure if the stinking rancidity is the same degenerative process as the polymerisation which gives the oil the sticky consistency of half-set varnish.
For the latter problem, look at the kitchen shelf where cooking oil has been sitting for some time without the shelf being cleaned, or in places around the bottle itself.
In spite of my resourceful attempts I have found nothing that cleans the gooey, sticky feel of polymerised oil off timber. I suppose that is because it is filling every pore of the grain structure at the surface.
I have also worked on well-oiled clarinets where, although although the timber is still solid, the grain structure has turned to mush, not unlike the way it does when rot attacks timber.
Add to that the instruments that have verdigris corrosion on the posts where they have been in contact timber treatment oil.
All these conditions are most unacceptable, and the $3 you mention pales into insignificance beside the long-term condition of the timber of a clarinet.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-24 21:11
Yeh, I bought a bottle too, put vit.E in it and it was rancid within 3 months. Wish I knew what rancid almond oil was good for.
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Author: R13A
Date: 2003-12-24 23:55
Fred
You can purchase pure Almond oil at Health Food Stores (eg: vitamin places) and have better luck finding it than at a grocery store. The small bottle will run about $4.
If you choose to oil, Do Not add vitamin E..........that is what makes it turn rancid, or at least rancid, faster. I've heard this from a few repair techs.
Think about it.........cut open and capsule of vit E, gently squeeze it and leave it. After a few days, it's solidified. I doubt that adding it to the Almond oil changes any of it's detoriating properties.
As to oiling, I really didn't think about it one way or another until Francois Klock examined one of my older R13's at the Okla Symposium. The first thing he did was to smell it and said: "good , you haven't oiled it".
More recently, I asked Greg Smith (the mouthpiece maker) his thoughts about oiling. Again, don't oil.
His reasoning was that oiling raises the tiny fibers within the wood bore and thus changes 'things'.
Simply food for thought.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-12-25 01:58
Something stinks in this line of thought... and it's not in a bottle.
******
Fred - every repair text I have read, including the seminal Brand manual,
mentions the sparing application of oil to wooden instruments.
If it only gets a swabbing every Spring, why not have your tech handle this when you go in for a check up.
I work with wood, in many applications, and find that a little oil goes a long way... I'm just too cheap to buy the megabuck stuff when something off the shelf does so well, and adds an interesting zest to my salads, too!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-12-25 04:34
How adding an antioxidant to an oil would make that oil become rancid is beyond me. The cause of rancidity is oxidation of the oil, and an antioxidant can hardly accelerate that action.
However, vitamin E is a short-lived antioxidant. It continues to work well in your body because you continue taking the stuff. Oil for your Clarinet doesn't get an antioxidant recharge periodically. Because of that, synthetic antioxidants -- which are far more stable than vitamin E -- will work *much* longer. BHA, BHT, and such things will prevent oil oxidation over a quite long period of time. Perhaps there are natural antioxidants of which I am unaware that might also do a fine job.
I do not know what antioxidant Dr. Henderson uses in "Bore Doctor," but I am positive it is NOT vitamin E. He writes rather strongly against its use for our purpose. I write strongly in favor of Bore Doctor, because I do not believe anything available is better for your Clarinet, if it needs oil. And some do.
Regards,
John
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-25 12:20
My guess is that the vast majority of clarinet players are not woodworkers and know little about its properties and that's one of the major reasons "don't oil" is recited by those with warranty responsibilities and those who might get called upon for rescue efforts. What is your clarinet worth to you?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-12-25 12:38
Synonymous Botch wrote "Something stinks in this line of thought... and it's not in a bottle......Fred - every repair text I have read, including the seminal Brand manual, mentions the sparing application of oil to wooden instruments."
Please explain what in your view 'stinks'.
From my perspective all that stinks is the continued recommendation of a scientifically discredited product as a bore oil. If there is a problem with the scientific reports regularly presented in the past in this forum, then it would be appropriate to address the content of these reports, rather than blindly promoting a product that received unfavourable mention in the reports.
There was a time, not so long ago, when probably every herbal remedy text praised the virtues of comfrey. Now that we know (through science) that it is damaging to the kidneys, we hear very Little about the stuff. Those misleading texts remain in print.
There was once a time when every geography text probably declared the earth to be flat.
Just because something is mentioned in every repair text does not automatically mean it is good. It can mean that it has never been appropriately questioned, and that the texts are dated.
BTW, the Brand manual contains a variety of techniques that are now sufficiently dated that it would be difficult (impossible?) to find a respectable technician still using them.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2003-12-25 20:10
What I meant to say was that if one oils hardwood, keep oiling consistently.
If one stops and starts oiling randomly over a given period of time, the "burr" of the wood changes. That kind of change is not condusive to consistancy (IMO), especially when it comes to hardwood mouthpieces. Perhaps I was responding to a question about hardwood mouthpieces when talking about this.
I've always recommended and used the doctor's products - oils (especially if one is going to oil hardwood mouthpieces), lubricants, swabs, etc.
Gregory Smith
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-12-25 21:01
Gordon, once something has been put on paper, it tends to develop a life of its own. There is a small, out-of-the-way restaurant not far from where I live. It's been written up favorably everywhere, from Gourmet magazine to many newspaper reviews and books. Almost every article urges a diner to try the famous raisin pie. I asked the owner once when he made raisin pie, and he said, "Oh, once a while ago, and some reviewer came in and tried it. People have been writing aboutr it ever since, but I haven't made any in years."
Regards,
John
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-12-25 23:23
It has been shown here that, inexplicably, the Bore Oil you buy from the major manufacturers is a petroleum product. It is known to cause the deterioration of wood.
Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that responsible and knowledgeable people would advise against oiling the bore with that stuff. And since you can't buy anything better in your local music store, the advice becomes "don't oil the bore".
The junk they sell as Key Oil seems to me to be only kerosene. It too, will damage the wood when it runs off the keys onto the wood. And, with the stupid dropper bottles it comes in, its nearly impossible to apply less than too much.
I have disassembled several clarinets that have been maintained with this useless Key Oil, and all I find are dry rods and screws that have some gummy residue on them. That, and a lot of wear.
Do you suppose that the manufacturers of these worse than useless products have our best interests at heart? Or are they the same people who want to sell us new clarinets when our keys are worn out and our wood turns to mush?
Bah, humbug!
Post Edited (2003-12-26 22:25)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-12-26 20:54
Thank goodness the lovey dovey Christmas fever is over and we're back to normal
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