 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: andrea
Date: 1999-11-21 21:37
I am so interested in the german school of clarinet playing. I am wondering about the current happenings in the world of german clarinet. I don't speak any german, but I want to play Mozart and Weber and german music on the style of clarinet it was written for. French music is great and the clarinets are wonderful too, but I want that german sound i can't get with the Buffet. can anyone help?
andrea
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-21 21:39
Andrea,
first you come up with at least $8000.00 US or so.
Then you place an order with one of the German clarinet manufacturers and wait.
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Author: andrea
Date: 1999-11-21 22:45
I have a bassett horn I borrowed from my school, but it is french. It is pretty much an alto in F. I am more interested in players and colleges associated with the german school. I am assuming it is not as large as the American school, because I have yet to see a performance in the traditional style, with the exception of Sabine Meyer. I have heard Larry Combs play the Mozart Concerto on a basset clarinet, but that was also made by Buffett.
What are some clarinet makers names? Someone must be accessible to little old me here. I feel it is critical to the music to play in the correct style. Oh yes, I also heard Bruckner 5 (i think) played by the Chicago S O on "authentic instuments", but I know for a fact they used french style mouthpieces, so it couldn't have been that authentic. Oh how I wish I spoke German.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-11-21 22:57
Makers:
Hammerschmidt & Wurlitzer are the two most widely known.
I wasn't kidding about the price & wait, either. The Hammerschmidt I tried once was selling for $12,000 and an 8 month wait.
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Author: HIROSHI
Date: 1999-11-22 01:12
1.There is another manufacturer called Schwenk and Seggelke. This is their price list: <A HREF=http://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/englisch/index.html>Schwenk and Seggelke Price List</A>
Yesterday's currency conversion rate was 1US$=1.899DM.So,
this manufacturer's price is very lower than Hammerschmidt or Wuritzer.
You can ask this place for more info in U.S.
<A HREF=http://www.olivacr.com/>Oliva</A>
2.More info.
(1)There are two types of key systems. Oehler and Reformed Boehm. Reformed Boehm seems to take more money as you see in the price list. Oehler system is a little to clumsy to handle even by a good player especially fast passage.
(2)Consideration should be made german clarinets are for plyaers with big hands. If you have small hands, it needs special consideration and may take add-on cost.
(3)Tome Ridenour says Selmer's Signature has dark tone of german clarinet and easy handling Boehm system here.
<A HREF=http://home1.gte.net/klarinet/articles/select.htm>Ridenour article</A>
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-11-22 02:16
If you're wanting to play pieces in the same tradition as the period they were written, you would have to learn more than just Boehm and Oehler systems. You'd have to learn to play Chalumeau, and all the various number of key clarinets. The Mozart concerto in it's final form, was composed for a Basset Clarinet in A based on the basic clarinet with something like 5 keys. The Oehler system is about as old as the Boehm system. So you still have a hundred and something years of Pre-Boehm/Oehler system clarinet literature to cover. Sorry i don't have any of my books around to check for specific dates...
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Author: Willie
Date: 1999-11-22 02:53
See if they are on the internet. As for speaking German, most them speak English better than we do here in the U.S.
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Author: Jessica
Date: 1999-11-22 04:35
While you're at it, you might want to buy a wooden mouthpiece and play it with the reed on top. I seem to recall that playing with the reed on the bottom was a French innovation, but I might be mistaken.
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Author: Placido
Date: 1999-11-22 04:39
Dear Andrea,
At first, German knowledge is not important for German Clarinets. (Maybe the reading of the Mein Kampf -sorry it was a disgusting joke.)
At second, you can get German models at an all right prize, if you are willing to dig a little. Check out Hammersmidt, Wurlitzer, and at the end, Stovasser. (Stovies are old pre II.World War Hungarian instruments. You can find some almost good among them.)
The trouble is, it is a different world, different fingerings, everything. For a long time I wanted one, but one of my clarinetist friends talked me out of it and I had to realize he was right, like a left hand turn. It is hard to do both French and German together.
Don't even try to make the German sound on a damn Buffet. They ain't no good for it. Try to do it with an old Boosey and Hawkes, with a Pomarico No1 mouthpiece and a Whitemaster 2 1/2 or 3. This combination may give you one percent chance. (It took me four years to experiment out the sound. Believe me, I was on the edge of throwing the instrument away and get a job at the railways as an engine driver!!:))
Good luck, the computer shows my e-mail, if something comes up, tell me!!
With crossed fingers: Placido
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Author: Placido
Date: 1999-11-22 04:42
The Hammerschmidts are custom-made clarinets, that's why it's a long pull to get there.
Placido
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Author: HIROSHI
Date: 1999-11-22 06:51
Greg Smith, one of sponsers of this BBS, makes angled bore mouthpieces. Angled bore is the typical German mouthpiece design basis and he says it emits darker tones. It may worth trying in stead of paying 8000-4000US$ for German made clarinet.
By the way,Pomarico #1 made of Grenadilla,sounded similary as Kasper-cicero #13 or Vandoren B40(designed by Guy Deprus,an interview of whom appears in recentl Clarinet magazine) with my Buffet RC. In my case it sounded somewhat darker French. Not like Karl Leister(who used a Wuritzer lended by Berlin Philhamonic and now his successor uses the instrument also lended.)
Generally German clarinets typical bore size is 0.584"(14.85mm) whereas French Buffets has 0.574(14.58mm) bore.You have to change mouthpieces also if you buy german clarinet.
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Author: HIROSHI
Date: 1999-11-22 06:57
Greg Smith, one of sponsers of this BBS, makes angled bore mouthpieces. Angled bore is the typical German mouthpiece design basis and he says it emits darker tones. It may worth trying in stead of paying 8000-4000US$ for German made clarinet.
By the way,Pomarico #1 made of Grenadilla,sounded similary as Kasper-cicero #13 or Vandoren B40(designed by Guy Deprus,an interview of whom appears in recentl Clarinet magazine) with my Buffet RC. In my case it sounded somewhat darker French. Not like Karl Leister(who used a Wuritzer lended by Berlin Philhamonic and now his successor uses the instrument also lended.)
Generally German clarinets typical bore size is 0.584"(14.85mm) whereas French Buffets has 0.574(14.58mm) bore.You have to change mouthpieces also if you buy german clarinet.
p.s. My late father worked for NHK symphonic orchestra and played a Heckel fagot(Bassoon) lended by the orchestra. It now costs 47000 US$!! German handmade woodwind instruments are really expensive: Not good for health of your father or mother.
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Author: Eoin
Date: 1999-11-22 07:38
This post is quite long, so I present the answer here at the top:
Buy a used Albert-System clarinet.
Now for the discussion. If you want to play Mozart on the instrument it was written for, you have a problem. Both the concerto K622 and the clarinet quintet K581 were written for Anton Stadler. He played a Basset Clarinet in A. This is a clarinet pitched in A with an extended lower range so that it can play down to low (written) C, that is, the C below the E that is normally the bottom note of a clarinet. In Stadler's day, there would have been far fewer keys on a clarinet and many more notes would require fork fingerings or would not have convenient alternatives.
There are three main problems:
1. Both the clarinet concerto and the quintet use the bottom notes of the range, that is, the notes below E. The normal approach is to play these notes and arpeggios an octave higher. All printed versions of the music do this and every performance I've ever heard. An alternative is to buy a Buffet Basset Clarinet, but it is expensive and has a "French" tone.
2. It is probably not necessary to reproduce the fingering that was used in Stadler's day. The modern Boehm and Oehler were devised to make playing easier. They don't change the sound. If you want the fingering as well as the sound, the Albert system is much closer to the original fingering than Boehm and slightly closer than Oehler.
3. German clarinets are reknowned for their dark sound. This is certainly true of Oehler clarinets. I don't known whether it was the case as far back as Mozart. If you want the dark sound, again go for an Albert system clarinet.
Although there doesn't seem to be anyone making Albert system clarinets now, they are still very plentiful in the USA. THere are regular accounts of people buying them from e-bay, for example.
In summary, the Albert System will give you the dark sound and uses a fingering system similar to that of the early clarinets.
Eoin
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Author: TASH
Date: 1999-11-22 07:56
If you want to gain German sound itself, you don't have to choose difficult oehler system instruments.
You have an another choice.
Now, you could get a German sound with French boehm system.
Austrian famous manufacturers have their special editions for whom prefer German sound with French fingering system.
In Japan, we can buy easily at ISHIMORI.
It costs about $4000US.
I'll show you the mamufacturers' homepages.
I hope it helps.
http://holz.fureai.or.jp/catalogue/Cla_Wurlitzer.html
http://holz.fureai.or.jp/catalogue/Cla_HAM.htm
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 1999-11-22 10:10
Well, here I am, called by Don.
If you are interested in historic instruments or the effects a mouthpiece and the bore changes the sound of your clarinet, the best address will be <a href=http://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/englisch/index.html>Jochen Seggelke</a> at Bamberg, Germany.
His reform boem instruments can be made with german or austrian bore (for the appropiate mouthpieces) - also available with a basset lower joint.
Most manufacturers in Germany make their 'top end' models (or other rarely ordered instruments) just on demand, but they can display you one sample instrument at their factory. <i>("Go on vacations in Germany, try their samples, order one and get it 'mailed' a few month later")</i>
For a list of companies (besides Schwenk und Seggelke), there are two Hammerschmidt in Germany and one in Austria, there are two Wurlitzer in Germany, there are also Harald Hüyng, Rolf Meinel, Wolfgang Mack, Lothar Reidel, two Kreul, the 'Holzblasinstrumentenbau GmbH', <a href=http://www.keilwerth.de>Richard Keilwerth</a> and Schreiber (certainly not a complete list).
My opinion is, bore and mouthpiece (reed and lay) effect the sound much more than the different key systems, also there should be great differences in how someone is playing his instrument (embouchure).
I hope, this helped a little,
Arnold, the basset hornist
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 1999-11-22 14:55
Eoin wrote:
-------------------------------
1. Both the clarinet concerto and the quintet use the bottom notes of the range, that is, the notes below E. The normal approach is to play these notes and arpeggios an octave higher. All printed versions of the music do this and every performance I've ever heard. An alternative is to buy a Buffet Basset Clarinet, but it is expensive and has a "French" tone.
-------------------
Eoin,
There are a number of printed version of what we hope are the correct notes (no manuscript of K622 is extant, so the scholars use the Winturthur fragment for extrapolation) and there are a great deal of recordings available using basset clarinet. Ricard Morales did a live version on basset clarinet at the Columbus Clarinet Fest that I heard, too.
Copies of the Winterthur fragment are available right here on Sneezy.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 1999-11-22 17:56
Thank you, Arnold, I was sure you could help this interesting discussion. Having Ger. ancestry [obvious?] and having spent some time there, I regret not having pursued clar. investigations and makers, other than the Deu. Museum displays in Munich [and Bate-Oxford]!! Having just heard the Mendelsohn [sp?] duet for cl and Basset Horn [on FM], I am now re-interested in acquiring a B H, [also to not have to transpose Fr H parts]. As was suggested, I'll try out some of my oldies with compatible mp's for that dark-German sound! Don
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Author: John Kelly - Australia
Date: 1999-11-25 05:05
I had a German system until about a year ago. The mfgr was [I think] Franz Grazlitz and I picked it up, second hand, for $600 [that's Aussie dollars folks].
Why not look for a used model just to see if you like it? I also considered buying a Yamaha German model at the same time but they wanted $3,000. It was practically new and was used by the Queensland Symphony Orchestra for one performance only! That's the story I was given anyway.
I have an address in Australia for the Grazlitz in the off chance you are interested in contacting this retailer.
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