 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Alyra
Date: 2003-11-28 11:50
I am watching a clarinet on ebay at the moment. Is this a German system one? I suspect so...but it is hard to tell!
[ PLEASE read the rules before posting! No ebay references are allowed without prior approval. Mark C. ]
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2003-11-28 12:25
Is a german model, very simple, only 13 or 14 keys. Full Oehler systems have more than 17 keys and 6 rings (left hand ring finger and right hand forefinger)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-11-28 13:48
This would appear to be an Albert system clarinet. The term "German system" is too loose as it has been applied to several systems of clarinet ranging back in time from Oehler to Albert to Mueller to predecessors of the Mueller.
Although the Albert system has fewer keys than the Oehler, it was suprisingly sophisticated and achieved surprising ease of play for the number of keys used.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-29 01:14
Dee, perhaps you can advise who has applied the term "German system" as loosely as you describe. I must be missing some references.
Regards,
John
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-11-29 21:48
The German System or Oehler System has developed along evolutionary lines. The fingering of both the German and Albert Systems is basically the same and is based on modifications gradually added to clarinets from the classical period, other permutations are the Clinton System and Barrett Action. All have the same lineage whereas the Boehm System was a concious invention. The modern Oehler Systems are roughly described along the lines of being 18 (keys and rings), 20, 22 or 24 key instruments, I personally play a 20 key. Another constant is the use of a cylindrical, or correct, bore profile as opposed to the bastardisation that has occurred in Boehm instruments. Instruments made for the German market, or German school do not have a bell ring, those for the Austrian school do have a bell ring. Correctly the mouthpieces, I personally use a Zinner, used should be German style, using a German sized reed such as a White Master, or Austrian style, using a reed such as a Black Master which is slightly larger across the tip. To muddy the waters there is also a German Boehm System instrument which has Boehm keywork on a cylindrical bore and no bell ring.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-11-30 00:34
I've seen it applied to various historical clarinets in a number of both old and new books and in various threads on this bulletin board and the news groups. Look at old method books from around 1900. The Oehler system was not yet developed. The term "German system" was being applied to the Albert system clarinets.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-12-01 09:07
Dee Can you be more specific with hard references? If you can't, I understand -- sometimes things are seen and it's difficult to remember exactly where. Searching on this Bulletin Board is easy enough, but It would be good to have references by some recognized authorities, not simply "a number of...books," and "old method books...." I'd like to examine such references to see exactly what they say and evaluate them as to whether they offer reasonable connections to otherwise recognized history. Some don't.
True, the modern German System 17 key/4 ring Clarinet's fingering system is practically identical to that of the late 1860s Eugène Albert Clarinets. However, Kroll's view of Clarinet history virtually ignores E. Albert, stating instead that modern German instruments as well as the Oehler are descended from the Müller. Wih fingering developments of Clarinets (other than the Boehm) between 1825 and 1875 or so being what they were, it seems plausible that even if E. Albert had never produced a Clarinet, the German system Clarinets of today might well exist in their current form But enough of this. The entire discussion here is utterly academic and means little to anyone, but if there's any nomenclature out there that I've missed, I'd like to know about it.
Also, do correct me if I'm mistaken, but I know of no Clarinet maker in the world today claiming to supply "Albert System" Clarinets. On the other hand, there are likely at least two dozen builders of "German system" instruments. And all of these are of the same fingering family.
Anyway, the Clarinet in question appears to be model ACL-342. Amati calls it a "German system" instrument. See http://www.amati.cz/english/production/instruments/wclarinet.htm.
Mark P: I almost always play Boehm, but my German system Clarinet is a Richard Keilwerth "Top Sound" model (24 keys/6 rings, but not Oehler), and it plays well for me.
Regards.
John
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Author: ned
Date: 2003-12-01 20:40
I think there is not a little confusion regarding the 'key count' on German clarinets c/w others.
I understand(anecdotally) that in assessing the # of keys on a German system instrument, some players/manufacturers also include the rings. I was always of the understanding that counting only the 'pinky' keys was the correct way for assesssing any instrument. Rings are merely levers for opening and closing pitch compensating vents and not true 'keys' as such.
John McAulay's Keilwerth instrument must be very heavy if it has 24 keys + 6 rings, I can only think. I just looked at the picture of the Amati ACL 340S, for which he kindly included a link and counted only 13 keys + 4 rings, I can't for the life of me count 17 keys, even though the image is rather small.
Is there a definitive position on this? If so what is the reference? Were one to consider buying an instrument sight unseen there could be cause for concern.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-12-02 01:56
My understanding, John, is that manufacturers count each German system key twice if it has two functions.
Yes, Richard Keilwerth says my "Top Sound" Clarinet is 24/6, but no way are there physically 24 keys. R. Keilwerth also makes an Oehler that has over 30 alleged keys. You just can't see them. And yes, I do believe the "key count" includes each ring or group of rings working in concert as a key. And the rings don't only operate "pitch compensating vents." The first rings added to a Müller clarinet (the "spectacle" rings for R2 and R3) replaced a separate key which was much more cumbersome to operate. The ring pair closes the pad covering the second hole on the right joint.
If anyone has better information than this, I'd love to read it.
Regards,
John
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