 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lavadude83
Date: 2003-11-01 22:57
Can anyone tell me about resonite clarinets?
Are they better than ebonite?
Wood?
Thanks
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-03 14:40
Clarinet made of kryptonite are the very best, but are prohibitively expensive and can be fatal to certain comic-book superheroes. With all due respect to our Australian collegues, clarinets made of vegemite should be avoided at all costs. For a grittier sound, I recommend clarinets made of anthracite.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-11-03 15:08
To what regions is the Resonite tree indigenous?
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-11-03 15:29
The "ite" suffix indicates a stone or mineral, so Resonite must be mined, not harvested from a tree. (E.g., when flying through the air, a non-terrestrial rock is a meteor. Once it hits the ground, it magically transforms into a meteorite.)
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Author: supernova_khr
Date: 2003-11-03 17:27
Joking aside (although I quite like the comment regarding anthracite, and envision clarinet players with blackened fingers and chins), aren't resonite, and ebonite, and the granddaddy of them all, bakelite, just different trademarked forms of hard plastic? Selmer says their clarinets are made of resonite, and I think Vito also uses that term also. I guess a materials scientist could tell the merits of each kind of plastic. But, if Lavadude83 is trying to find out what material is better for a clarinet, I'd think it wouldn't matter that much, as long as he/her has picked out a good brand plastic instrument. I personally have had a bakelite clarinet for a long time (used it for marching), and never experienced any structural issues with it. Given it really is bakelite, which was invented around 1910, and used extensively through the time of WWII, the instrument is well over 50 years old.
Kay
edit added. I just looked up ebonite...and found out it is hard rubber, not plastic.
Post Edited (2003-11-03 17:35)
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2003-11-03 17:32
Actually, the optimum clarinet material is: unobtanium ---but it is prohibitively expensive!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-11-03 18:05
Or you could do a search on those titanium clarinets that were mentioned a while ago.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-03 18:33
Going out a ways on a slippery limb, I BELIEVE that resonite/ebonite is a modern form of hard rubber, made from [one of many] synthetic rubbers, crosslinked/hardened [thermo-set] by sulfur [other?] compounds which do not lose the "shine" nor discolor [brown-green] with sunlite exposure/age, as the older [natural] HRs have done. There are many-many thermoplastics, such as polyolefins [polypropylene bassoon p. e.] and ABS [acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene ter-polymer] Artley p.e., that have suitability for cl bodies. I will be happy to accept comments and corrections on the above, since much of it based more on assumption than exact knowledge. Its in the realm of "trade secrets". Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-03 20:37
To atone for my previous silliness by giving a (hopefully) informative response to Lavadude (aka Volcanoman?), although it's still a hugely controversial issue, there's still (IMHO) no scientific evidence that a clarinet made from wood is necessarily better than one made from hard rubber (aka 'resonite' or 'ebonite') or from one of the many varieties of plastic mentioned by Don, or even from metals. I have found this: Back in the first half of the 20th century, many manufacturers made good and sometimes even great clarinets from a number of non-wood materials, often lavishing the same manufacturing techniques, high-quality keywork and trim, and hand labor on their bakelite/hard rubber/metal clarinets as they did for the wood instruments. The result was that, overall, the non-wood ones were frequently indistinguishable from the good wood ones in playing qualities. Then, maybe around WWII or so, a transition began wherein the non-wood materials were relegated almost exclusively to student or marching instruments, and the top-of-the-line clarinets were always made of wood. Predictable result? The wood instruments, on the average, played better (of course!). Does this mean the material itself was better? I think not -- instead, the poor non-wood instruments were treated to non-undercut or even poorly-located toneholes, cheap keywork, and little or no testing or hand workmanship/regulation. Thus today's poor reputation for these materials. All marketing, IMO --- not science. Today, though, a small but significant change is finally starting, wherein many topnotch instruments (more prevalent in the double-reed world but trickling down into clarinets) are being offered in synthetic materials, and I expect this to continue and expand. So.....there are some good plastic or hard-rubber clarinets available today --- many folks have, for example, mentioned liking the Vito V40 and I have to say the one I tried was quite good. There are others, too.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-11-03 20:51
Also Tom Ridenour makes an excellent instrument (TR147) which is very similar to the LeBlanc models he designed, in hard rubber.
The nicest thing about a well built resonite/ebonite/bakelite (synthetic) body is their resistance to dimensional changes with humiditiy.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-11-03 22:11
Two of my personal 'best' clarinets --- my bass and my Eb soprano -- are hard rubber instruments (from the 1950s and 1930s, respectively) and I believe they play as well as anything made of wood, and furthermore are in much better condition for their age than most similarly-old wood instruments, probably because of the durability and dimensional stability of the material.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-03 22:17
Very well put, Dave [and SB]. Other advantages of synthetics, of course, are material uniformity, no grain/fiber structure to crack, and, with "fillers", the material's density can be made the same as wood, or heavier [lighter?] if desired, for both size and tonality reasons. IMHO, we musicians are much like "normal" people in our resistance to change. Seems to me its time to put the concept of Wood is best, Plastic is poor, aside, and concentrate on manufacturing quality as our goal. Heresy?? Don
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2003-11-04 05:17
I agree with Dave and Don. A good hard rubber or synthetic clarinet can equal a good wooden clarinet in every way. Plus being more durable and less affected by weather.
Post Edited (2003-11-04 05:22)
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-11-04 12:33
FYI - The oboe family has lead the way in professional instruments made with (at least the upper section) construction in plastics.
There are some extensive discussions involving the same sort of preconception of tone generated with the different materials, and the player's ability (or INability) to distinguish one from another.
It really does seem to come down to fit and finish...
http://www.idrs.org/Publications/Journal/JNL13/JNL13Diam.html
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-04 15:04
Many TKS, SB, for bringing this fine scientific study of the "ill wind which nobody blows good" [have always liked this characterization], to our attention. As with other technically-good studies, this raises some more questions [to me], particularly in the field of "sonic spectra" [my? term for frequency/amplitude plots] of a variety of notes from both conical and cylindrical bore instruments. Are some of these available? Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-11-04 16:50
Kay: I wonder how you know your horn is made from Bakelite. First, of course, is the fact that Bakelite is(was) a tradename that encompassed specific composition(s). It and other manufacturers' phenolic resins more or less replaced hard rubber compositions sometime early in the 1900s except for clarinet mouthpieces and some other kinds of parts. Clarinet mfgrs. (and others) used phenolics other than Bakelite for cost reasons due to trademark and patent costs. Clarinet sections may be molded to approximate shape and then machined or molded as round or square "logs" that are then extensively machined to shape. In addition, a myriad of fillers can be used in the phenolic mix to alter properties. Molded plastics can have internal stresses just like wood can. For all the above reasons and more it's hard to say that "plastic" clarinets are any better or worse than those made from wood. Most people who have studied the subject in depth probably hold that the material of construction of clarinets has little if any effect on the sound produced from them.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-11-05 16:22
Regarding another "ite," Oskar Kroll wrote of the very good sound quality from a clarinet made of lucite, a material known in the US by the trademark Plexiglas.
Regards,
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-11-05 18:22
JMcA - Again, another "family" of thermoplastics, the acrylics. I made my first contact there, in high school [late 30's]!, by sending to duPont for samples of poly methylmethacrylate, colored chips. Didnt pursue it, was well beyond HS chemistry then! Having seen [later] a glass oboe in GB, I thot a transparent [plexiglass] wwind would attract attention, but might "cold [or warm] flow" out of shape and tune easily!! So many syn materials to choose from! Don
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