 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jcm499
Date: 2020-05-13 20:21
It seems like nearly every clarinet on the market has silver plated or nickel plated keys. In both instances, the plating can wear through, especially if aggressively polished, which becomes an issue especially for silver plating that's stored in a case with a rubber mouthpiece. And if modifications are made to the keywork, it must be replated to match. My vintage Selmer has unplated nickel-silver keys, and none of these issues. I think I prefer it. What's the rationale for plating clarinet keys?
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2020-05-13 20:39
Attachment: Kruspe B_rep.jpg (248k)
I was always happy when one of my old clarinets had nickel silver keys without plating. They were easier to restore (see picture). Replating silver plated keys, as sometimes necessary, cost about 200 Euros.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-05-13 21:12
Aesthetics
Although you could make a case for gold making sliding easier, it is the opposite for silver (a bit more "grippy").
I am not familiar with solid nickel silver keys. Do they bend easier, or bend less easy than modern key work? I ask this because I know pot metal will snap rather than bend. In addition some of the last Leblancs had keys that were soft enough that the crow's foot would fall out of adjustmen rather quickly.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2020-05-13 21:33
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Aesthetics
>
> I am not familiar with solid nickel silver keys. Do they bend
> easier, or bend less easy than modern key work? I ask this
> because I know pot metal will snap rather than bend.
As far as I ever knew, plated and unplated keys of high quality instruments were made of the same metal alloy. Pot metal was for cheap student instruments. When I was a student and had my R13s serviced at Hans Moennig's shop, he made no secret of disliking plating of any kind. The keys were still polished to a nice luster, but with the advantage that if something marred the surface it could be buffed smooth and re-polished without having to re-plate or match anything.
My first plated clarinet (silver) was my 10G Bb (which I didn't dare bring into Moennig's shop for reasons you can find elsewhere in a search). Both that Bb and my slightly newer 10G A have tarnish more or less embedded in the little nooks and crannies that are just too much trouble to polish. And the plate has worn very thin or off entirely on many of the keys. My older R13, which Moennig set up for a previous owner probably in the late 1950s, still has much cleaner keys and a smooth finish that I think could probably be buffed and polished to its original shine if I spent the money for the shop time. And polishing it wouldn't thin anything.
Karl
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2020-05-13 21:54
"I am not familiar with solid nickel silver keys. Do they bend easier, or bend less easy than modern key work?"
Aren't modern keys also made from nickel silver, and will plating affect mechanical properties at all?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-05-13 22:12
I'm still waiting for stainless steel keys, or maybe keys made from an alloy of nickel or cobalt that won't tarnish.
The problem with un-plated keys is that they tarnish very fast, usually in a matter of weeks. It's hard to sell a clarinet with tarnished keys when your competitor has nice looking silver or nickel plated keys, manufacturers caught on to this pretty fast. I generally leave my clarinets with un-plated keys unpolished, as polishing is only a temporary solution. Even when freshly polished, nickel silver keys don't shine as nice as plated keys.
While plating can wear through and scratches can't be fixed as easily, plating is less reactive and won't leave your fingers with that "metallic" smell (caused by the formation of Oct-1-en-3-one). Also it's not uncommon to see older clarinets with rings that have worn significantly to the point where the keys need to be replaced. If these instruments had plated keys from the start, and the plating was touched up as needed, there would likely be far less wear. In a way the plating acts as a barrier to protect the base metal. DIY plating is very easy to learn and only requires a small investment for a starter kit. By learning the art of touch-up plating you can make clarinets look like new and protect the keys from excessive wear. Unfortunately, many techs are reluctant to give it a try.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_BCKUtAcLZ/
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-05-13 22:54
Plating protects the base metal from corrosion and also covers up all the different alloys used to give a uniform look if certain key pieces are cast in bronze, key cups and arms machined from nickel silver and key barrels made from brass.
Unplated bronze castings will make their adjacent silver plated touchpieces tarnish from contact with with fingers.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-05-14 00:46
As for stainless steel keywork, Stephen Wessel makes flutes with stainless steel keywork: <www.wessel-flutes.co.uk>
I've heard it's not a particularly nice metal to work with due to its hardness as it's tough going on tools and also not the easiest thing to hard solder.
Titanium has also been used for flute keywork (and horn rotors) and that can be anodised to make it all manner of colours, although I'm not sure how easy it is to work: https://www.landellflutes.com/gallery/innovations#c62
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2020-05-14 02:49
Can any of you answer:
If the base metal is the same on all clarinets, why would the keywork of the Leblanc Opus clarinets be softer than others? Is there a percentage of other elements such as copper that companies can add to save money?
............Paul Aviles
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-14 13:12
There is also ruthenium plating-very pretty and solid and of a blackish colour. expensive, however.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-14 14:03
Paul, the percentage is different: namely the percentage of zinc.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-05-14 19:06
A lot of keys are now cast either as a whole (complete with key barrels), or in part (touchpieces) and hard soldered together. German clarinet makers have been using single piece cast keys for decades, but most makers use cast parts that are silver soldered onto key barrels or key rods.
You'll also see single piece castings used on speaker keys on student model Yamahas and Schreiber-built Buffets. Yamaha also used single piece brass castings on their 61 and 62 soprano sax palm keys (I'm not sure if the 475, 675, 82Z and 875/875EX sopranos still have that).
Cast nickel silver keys and key pieces are usually softer than keys and pieces machined, stamped or drop forged from nickel silver sheet or bar. Buffet F/C touchpieces are particularly soft and prone to bending because of their shape which often causes the crow's foot regulation going out of adjustment which is why it's important not to overload soft sided cases or place anything directly on top of the keywork when they're in their case.
Some bronze alloy castings are ridiculously hard and resist bending (eg. Jupiter bass clarinet keys), but the hardness of that bronze can be its downfall as it can suddenly snap when bent, even if it takes a lot of force to bend it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2020-05-14 19:07)
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-05-14 19:28
Can anybody tell, please, why silver plating is not used with hard rubber instruments?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-05-14 19:40
>> If the base metal is the same on all clarinets, why would the keywork of the Leblanc Opus clarinets be softer than others? <<
I wouldn't say Leblanc Opus keys are necessarily softer than "others" (it depends which ones), but even if the alloy is nickel-silver it can vary for many reasons, for example: the exact alloy, the condition of the metal, the thickness of the part, the exact shape of the part, the way the part was formed, etc.
>> Is there a percentage of other elements such as copper that companies can add to save money? <<
It's entirely possible that keys from a more expensive material would be softer (or harder for that matter), depending on all those things and more.
Post Edited (2020-05-15 09:25)
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Author: Doug Leach
Date: 2020-05-14 19:41
<<Can anybody tell, please, why silver plating is not used with hard rubber instruments?>>
Because the residual sulfur in the hard rubber would cause the keys to rapidly tarnish.
Doug
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2020-05-14 21:40
It's been done on some (usually Chinese clarinets) and the sulphur fumes from the ebonite make the silver plating turn black.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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