 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-04-21 03:29
So I just bought a Buffet Prestige Bass clarinet on friday.. I am in love anyhow, I have noticed some weird effects on my Bb clarinet playing... I am playing flat compared to how sharp I normally play. Is this common?
Is there a way I can get more affluent with my bass clarinet with out throwing my Bb Clarinet out of whack. Like should i practice each the same ammount or something?
I know this is a silly question but I am just curious.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-04-21 03:45
A friend of mine who played bass for a year then switched back to Soprano once commented on how little air the soprano requires.
If you have a good, full airstream, it's possible that you are exerting considerably less bite on the mouthpiece than you did before (something I'm trying to accomplish at the moment), making a flatter tone.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Benny
Date: 2003-04-21 03:45
I have a friend who plays bass clarinet and Bb Soprano (not as much as bass). He has the same problem, I guess probably because bass clarinet embochure is looser than Bb. Just a guess.
Benny
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Keil
Date: 2003-04-21 05:02
Playing the bass correctly in my opinion can doing nothing but enhance your Bb playing. The bass requires a certain level of embouchural control that when transferred over and coupled with the embouchural requirements of the Bb soprano makes for very wonderful results. After having played both the Bass i found that the air required to play the Bb is in fact much left. Due to the amount of air required to play the bass when switching between the two your Bb playing should in fact seem effortless with respect to air and control. As far as playing flatter, that could be due to the different use of muscles. Your embouchure probably has gotten accustomed to working the muscles in a different way and just need to remember they amount of strength required to play the Bb.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2003-04-21 05:55
My experience has been about the same as those above who relate how playing bass, as Keil says: "Correctly", improves breathing capacity for both bass and soprano. I've found that the embouchure also adapts pretty readily. I assume, since you bought your bass instrument on Friday, you've been playing a couple of days(?). Given a little more time you should be fine. I try to give about equal time to both and that works for me.
Happy (bass) Tootin'
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2003-04-21 06:33
Anything that pushes your mouth further open is going to affect your Bb pitch. Same with saxes. What you need is practice in making the switch. I suggest that you practice both instruments in the same session, switching back and forth. This should improve your speed in adapting your embouchure to the proper instrument.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-04-21 12:14
Due to the way the Bass clarinet responds, it can only enhance and show you alot of things that one takes for granted on the Bb clarinet(soprano). Achieving proper air support and control over embouchure with the bass clarinet is quite challenging. Also on the bass you are required to "open" up the throat in the upper register, and this of course will give insight in how the regular clarinet clarion register can be improved and enhanced.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-04-21 14:35
Yes, I agree with the above, it is helpful in embouchure development/adaptation, IMHO. It is very evident to me in "doubling" playing where rapid change, as in Bdwy Musicals and older dance band playing is required. It seems to me that there is "embouchure memory" as related to mp/horn size! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2003-04-21 15:40
I too just bought a Buffet Prestige low C Bass and am loving playing it. As far as affecting my soprano embouchure, no problem as long as I keep practicing. It has been my long time experiance as a doubler on the sax family (as well as some trumpet/horn) that multiple instrument skills only enhance your total embouchure as more (and different) muscle combinations are called "into play" and strengthened as a result. When I pick up any intrument, it is a matter of "embouchure memory" as mentioned above--my mouth (and fingers) just seems to automatically adjust. (even switching from bass sax to Eb clarinet in the West Side Story pit--no big deal) My main practice regium, however, is on my soprano clarinets and I experiance no embouchure related problems by playing any other instrument.
I am worried, however..........bass clarinet is becoming my most "fun" instrument. It almost seems adictive. BTW--"got mine" at IMS (shortly after Larry picked up His) from a choice of seven.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-04-21 15:48
Yes. Bass clarinet playing will, on the one hand, adversely affect your soprano clarinet playing (thus having an adverse effect on it), because bass clarinet is SO much fun to play that you will probably stop practicing your soprano clarinet altogether. On the other hand, should you develop the willpower and intestinal fortitude to go back to that silly little small clarinet after playing a REAL clarinet (meaning the bass, that is), you will find the experience beneficial in many ways. Have fun and good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jennifer
Date: 2003-04-22 11:11
I'm mainly a Bb/A clarinet player but play some bass as well. On soprano clarinet I play single lip, but on bass I go to double lip. The flatness you're feeling on clarinet is probaby the result of less jaw pressure and a more open throat that are required to play the bass effectively. Playing double lip on the bass allows me to minimize the difference in jaw pressures.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Matt Snyder
Date: 2003-04-22 14:59
Let me begin by stating that this is my first posting on this BBS, which is stupid since I've been looking at the Clarinet Pages for years, and have co-linked to it from my own website for ages. Go figure.
Anyway, I'm first and last a clarinet and bass clarinet player, but that hasn't stopped me from playing a whole lot of saxophones and flute. What I've discovered from reed doubling (and I'm only stating this for myself, not saying what other people should feel) is that if I'm not sounding good on a particular horn, it's because I'm not practicing that horn enough, end of story. I used to say "my clarinet must not sound good today because I've been playing too much tenor sax" or "my flute must sound bad because I've been playing clarinet" (I used to say that a LOT!).
It's a very simple, but surprisingly powerful rule: if you don't give an instrument the practice and respect it deserves, it will let you know by sounding bad. If you're up to snuff on your clarinet, and up to snuff on your bass clarinet, neither one should give you a problem, even when switching back and forth. But that means practicing. Hells bells, does that mean practicing!
Matt Snyder
msnyder@alumni.indiana.edu
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-04-22 16:14
Matt speaks the truth. It's like they say for sports: the best way to train for running is to run; the best way to train for playing soccer is to play soccer, etc.... With musical instruments as well as sports, cross-training is usually beneficial and almost never detrimental, but there is ultimately no substitute for practicing what you're gonna play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-04-22 22:24
I played effer, Bflat and bass throughout high school - I had no serious side effects - except when swapping from effer to bass and that was purely spatial.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-04-23 13:39
Somewhat like diz's experience, in high school (senior year) I switched daily between EEb contra-alto and Eb soprano (eefer), and that was a bit of an adjustment......I did this mainly out of boredom, because our formerly top-notch concert band had been decimated that year by the forced (racial) integration which began in our county (in the state of Maryland, USA) that year. Many of our top players got bused to other schools in the county, and the few players that got bused to our school were far lower in ability, and our excellent band director was so frustrated he quit and was replaced by a total incompetent --- what should have been my best school year became my worst (but I digress from the thread.......). The point is, double (or triple/quadruple/whatever) to your heart's content without worrying that it will degrade your ability to play your 'primary' instrument --- it won't.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sarah
Date: 2003-04-23 18:09
I find that playing other instruments (including bass clarinet) actually helps my Bb playing. It seem to make me more aware of what I am doing, and then I am more aware of everything when I play Bb. And when you get a working bass, it is lots of fun to play!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-04-24 00:53
I think playing bass makes my soprano playing better. My embouchres are completely different on tne two, but that has not adversely affedted either. Like my pal Bill says, the bass is so much fun. I admit, that the bass is my true love. If only the parts could be a little harder.
I have played double reeds, sax, and flute and don't seem to have any problem switching between them. Although I sometimes have to put the fingerings for each out of my head. They are enough the same, yet different to throw me off.
Jean
And yes, aren't those Buffet basses fabulous!?!?!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-04-24 01:56
Sorry, I disagree - I've played a Buffet bass and I thought it sucked ... however the school's Le Blanc was a beautiful beast ... then again that was just my limited experience.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-04-24 18:22
A couple of you mentioned that the bass clarinet takes more air than a soprano. Perhaps I'm not the best one to chime in on the subject since it's been a long time since I've picked up a soprano (clarinet, that is), but a bass clarinet will have less resistance to air flow because of its larger bore diameter. I don't seem to need much air with mine because, at moderate to low dynamic levels I can sustain a note for a lot longer than I suspect most soprano players could.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Matt Snyder
Date: 2003-04-24 20:23
Don -
I think you have to differentiate between volume of air and air pressure (resistance). Soprano clarinet takes less volume of air, but it requires more pressure than any other instrument I've ever played (though I've never tried oboe, or any brass instrument). Bass clarinet (like its metal version, the baritone sax) takes a large VOLUME of air, but not under a lot of pressure. I suspect this is what people mean when they say bass clarinet needs more air. Any large instrument involves moving a large column of air.
This is also why the clarinet can seem effortless after playing bass clarinet (and especially after playing baritone sax). You're really supplying the instrument with a well supported wind stream, but beware! You may be blowing too much and produce intonation issues. But as I said in my previous post, in you're in clarinet mode (i.e. you're practicing), it won't be a problem.
Matt Snyder
msnyder@alumni.indiana.edu
http://users.bestweb.net/~msnyder
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Forest Aten
Date: 2003-04-25 14:06
This shouldn't be a problem as long as you practice both/all instruments that you intend to play well. It will take daily maintance on both your Bb and your bass clarinet. I recommend that you start your practice on the larger instrument each day...
Just a note for any of the high school 'bass clarinet' players that are planning a degree in music....
If you don't play the smaller clarinets currently....start working on them now. Most if not all college/university instructors/curriculum will focus on Bb/A clarinet thoughout your degree. I require my students rotate in school ensemble in a limited way...but will only occasionally have long term objectives established for the harmony clarinets in the studio lesson curriculum. I reserve this information and experience for master classes and ensemble experience. The rotation is more important for music education majors and these are the students who do get more time on the harmony instruments...in general.
I guess my point is....don't expect to play bass clarinet in your weekly lesson at university. Always exceptions, I know. But....
Forest Aten
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-04-25 18:25
Matt--
I'm not sure I buy the "volume of air" arguement either. One doesn't need to fill the instrument with air. It's already full of air before you start.
We can even look at some specific cases. Take, for example, the same-pitched note played on both instruments, say open G on the bass and third-space-below-the-staff G on the soprano. The tubing lengths for both will be approximately the same, but the diameter (and volume) of moving air will be larger for the bass. But, when you blow, because the bass has the larger diameter, it will have less resistance to required to move the air. (Is it easier to blow into a soda straw or a paper-towel roll of about the same length? The paper-towel roll, of course.)
But what about the same-fingered note, say a third-space-below-the-staff G on both instruments. The effective length will be about twice a great for the bass, and, as an approximation, we can say that the inside diameter of the bass is about twice as great as that of a soprano. This means that the bass player needs to move about 8 times the amount of air as a soprano player. However, since resistance is proportional to length, but inversely proportional to the square of the diameter, the resistance to the movement of the air in the bass and effort required by the player will still be only half of that required for the soprano.
I think that this misperception of the bass having more resistance or requiring more air is based solely on people's misconception that bigger things require more effort, which, in some cases, they do. (It takes more work to pick up a bass clarinet than a soprano, for instance.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
