 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-04-02 23:44
I'm trying to help my 10 year old son with the lower register on his alto sax. It seems he overblows the notes---and is unable to get the lower notes to sound (the notes overblow to the upper register notes) When I try,as long as I relax my lower jaw, I can get the lower notes to sound. Any advice?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-04-03 01:01
I've frequently had difficulty in getting the bottom A S notes to sound softly. A lot of the cure is what you found by relaxation, try thrusting your lower jaw forward a bit, thus taking a slightly longer embouchure. Also, the A S is somewhat similar to the bass cl, in that a very slight leak on the palm key and other high pads, the 2 octave keys, can raise cain. Be sure to check the art. G# pad for seating when trying for low C#, B and Bb. It is activated by the left L F plateau. It MUST stay down. I generally play with a Selmer C* or D mp amd a quite soft 2-2 1/2 reed Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2003-04-03 01:28
Frequently young students with small hands will inadvertently rest their palms on the D or other palm keys, causing the small but deadly leak that will act as an octave vent. Check for this....
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-03 03:16
Low notes are easy on alto saxes PROVIDING there are no leaks. Leaks are VERY common on saxophones, particularly brand new ones.
The more experienced player can 'blow through' the problem, but this is not so easy for beginners.
Get it checked!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-04-03 04:47
Try a bit of a softer reed too. Relaxing is definitely a MUST in the lowest notes of any saxaphone. Also, don't be frightened if these notes tend to blast. In my opinion, it's about as hard to get the low sax notes soft as it is to get a clarinets thumb and register key C to sound softly. Both take lots of practice and "finesseing" of the instrument. (I know it's spelled wrong, but you know what I mean).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ebasta
Date: 2003-04-03 13:05
i have success by positioning the ligiture on the bottom of the reed. it gives the mouthpiece more reed to work with. a plastic reed may also help.
ed
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-04-03 14:01
The standard advice for learning to play sax low notes is to stick your lips out and wrap them around the mouthpiece "like smoking a cigar." This will get the notes out reliably, if rather loud. Getting them soft involves voicing with the tongue, palate and jaw position.
It's all a matter of practice. I learned to get out the low notes on alto by playing in front of a pot for the Salvation Army many years ago. Strangely enough, baritone sax was easier for me to learn than alto. I guess it's because any clarinet-type attempt to muscle the tone out doesn't work at all on bari.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-04-03 14:14
I don't think anyone said this explicitly: this problem is typical for the sax, especially for clarinet players. There's lot's of good advice above.
A better player can play the low notes, and the octave above, and the fifth above that, and even more?, using embouchure alone. You can't do that with a clarinet; this demonstrates the difference between the two instruments.
WT
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Author: William
Date: 2003-04-03 14:57
The concept of "smoking a cigar" is good because you have to have an almost double lip embouchure to produce these low tones--C, B & Bb--with any consistancy. Another "concept" that seemed to help my beginning students was to blow "warm air" when attempting to play these tones. Overblowing (hot air) will cause a harmonic (octave) skip even though the register key is left untouched. "Warm air" will be "gentel" air that will allow those difficult notes to sound. The embouchure must also be relaxed, as in double lip. We clarinetists, when first learning to play the sax, tend to use far too much "bite" because that is what we are used to. Sax requires a more relaxed set of "chops" but noentheless, firm and controlled. But try the blowing warm air--like warming the palm of your hand--approch to breath support for these low notes. Should work. If not, then buy a box of cigars--NO, just kidding!!!
Also, the saxophone must be leak free. And the reed must be in optimum condition--no chips, cracks, etc. Softer, rather than harder, is also recommended for reed strength.
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Author: David
Date: 2003-04-04 15:57
You can also try using The Force. So much of the sound comes from thinking it out. Sounds like bollocks, I know, but sax players who listen and aim for a nice sound produce the goods.
Anyroadup, get the victim to try and do low notes with the octave key open. Requires a lot of frowning, but is possible. Once mastered, then with all the taps closed the lows seem a lot easier.
David
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-04-04 16:10
Great advice above. I agree that the most likely source of this common problem is leaks or improper embouchure/air support. However, I have found (on the advice of others) that simply dropping a wine cork down the bell can make things a lot better. It works for me on my alto sax! Why not give it a try. What have you got to lose?
Henry
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Author: David
Date: 2003-04-04 16:46
My King 613 had a bit of a prob like that and Eric Orchard told me to chuck the neck bung thingy into the bell.
Miracle cure, and still I have absolutely not the slightest clue why. Sufficiently mysterious for me not to reach for the Google. It's nice to have something in life that stays inexplicable.
David
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-04-04 16:55
Great to hear that it works also with other objects! But beware, it's easy to lose the object when you invert the horn for drainage! It's less of a problem with a simple wine cork than with a neck bung. Just put a few extras in your case.
Being a scientist, I have myself wondered why it works. Obviously, the air flow is slightly changed (from laminar to turbulent flow or something like that). But I'm not an aerodynamicist, so I have just accepted the fact!
Henry
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-05 00:09
I believe it is to do with the acoustic problems associated with the sharp bend. I don't know the details.
Imagine travelling down the bore of the sax. The cross-sectional area gets GRADUALLY greater until you reach the bend. Then SUDDENLY, at the bend, it effectively becomes almost twice as much, unless you turned to go around the bend.
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Author: David
Date: 2003-04-06 22:30
Sounds plausible. The foreign object cuts down the cross section in the bend a bit.
I tried a similar experiment on the clarinet. The cylindricality meant it didn't work. Gravity was a problem too...
David
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-07 07:15
Bore constrictions have been used to solve acoustic problems in recorders.
And slight bore constrictions are common in "polycylindrical calrinet construction.
With the sax, my understanding is that the foreign object acts by creating turbulence. I don't know the details.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-04-07 15:24
I liked that "reach for the Google"......Remember, if it's a gold lacquer sax you must use a cork from red wine
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