 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Henrik
Date: 2003-02-17 21:26
What do you make out of this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2506966983&category=10182
The instrument seems to be in great condition, but is the bid price justified?
I don't like the way the seller repeatedly claims this to be a professional clarinet.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2003-02-17 21:53
Claims can be made by anyone, including me. That doesn't make them <b>fact</b>. The MM is a very good clarinet and I think the current bid price is in line with the instruments condition. IMHO most people do not consider MM's to be a professional clarinet, but I've had some the play <b>excellently</b>. I do believe some MM's play as well as R-13's. <b>Some</b>.
jbutler
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Author: Thomas Piercy
Date: 2003-02-17 23:28
I recently questioned an E-bay seller (not this seller) about his claims of an obviously intermediate level clarinet being a "professional level" instrument. He claimed to know quite a bit about clarinets and the clarinet he was trying to sell was a "Pro" model. He answered my inquiry insisting the clarinet in question was a "pro" model because a local professional player had "played" it and had good things to say about the instrument. [I now wonder if I can sell some Bundys as "pro" models after I play on them?]
Buyer beware; do your homework and research.
TBP
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-02-18 00:06
So barring the all the spin is this still an intermediate line horn?
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-02-18 02:34
Hi,
I watched the finish of that auction and the final price was, are you sitting down, $750. It was madness with a sniper pushing the total way up. Funny, the person that won must have bid a maximum of $750 at the early stage of the auction (IMHO a crazy thing to do).
I have sold two MM in the past four months, both in very fine shape with either new or almost new pads and corks and got just that total amount for both. The prices were fair and all concerned were satisfied.
The MM is a very fine clarinet and I used my best MM for over 20 years for a lot of profesional playing. It is a terrific clarinet but not worth $750. Someone is going to be very upset when they find it is not really an R13 eventhough the seller says E & S.
HRL
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2003-02-18 02:54
It was sitting at $415 when I made my post. I think that was inline with the pricing in this area. In fact, a little closer to $500 around the greater Houston area.
jbutler
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-02-18 04:36
I think the Evette & Shaeffer Master Models would live up to the standards of a pro instrument.
I agree with John, $500 is about right
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2003-02-18 12:25
The auction description said it was an Evette & Schaeffer, but looking at the trademark in the photos, it's obviously just an Evette, equivalent to an E-11. I agree it was over priced.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-02-18 13:00
It does look like there was some shell bidding taking place. This should be watched and if this seller is doing this, he should be barred from eBay. That's a very difficult thing to catch, however.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2003-02-18 17:10
This is definitely NOT a surface-blemished R-13. The giveaway is the right hand "sliver" key.
This key has 3 parts: a central tube, the "sliver" part pressed by the finger and the pad cup. On an R-13, both the sliver and the pad cup have a curved "swoosh" shape, soldered along the length of the central tube.
On the eBay instrument, the sliver and the pad cup stick out straight from the central tube.
It may be a fine instrument, but IMHO it's not worth either the hype or the final price.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-02-18 19:23
Ken, I'll take your word for it but to my eyes it's almost too close to call. I had to literally stick the lower joint of my R-13 (134xxx 1973) up against the monitor to compare the distinction. I saw the curve/straight disparity against my own on the upper pic but in the horn's lower left to right pic the sliver key appears to have that slight curve. I'm no expert on horns like you. In my own limited "time gone by" knowledge an Evette & Shaeffer was always an "intermediate" line horn; just below the entry level pro R-13 regardless of the name slapped on it. However, the horn IS what it is.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-02-18 23:42
<It does look like there was some shell bidding taking place> I meant to say "shill bidding." Just for the record.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-02-19 05:08
Just for the record, the clarinet in the auction in question was an Evette Master Model, not a plain vanilla Evette or an Evette & Shaeffer. It's probably the forerunner to the E12 but made in France instead of Germany. Ken, if you had the instrument in front of you, the difference in keywork that Ken S. identifies (and which is characteristic of later (D-series) French Evettes as well as most later (K-series) E&S) would be quite easy to tell. For one thing, the tube on the Evette sliver key is significantly longer than the R13's. Based on all the evidence I've seen, I have to conclude that Francois Kloc's statement that Evette (not E&S) Master Models were blemmed R13s, is simply incorrect. But sellers will quote it even when they don't believe it as long as it brings them higher bids -- and it does bring them higher bids.
On the other hand, the identity of the instrument is clear in the pictures and, as far as I can tell, no one held a gun to the buyer's head. Could s/he have done better? Oh, yes. Did s/he get a good instrument for less than s/he would have paid a local dealer? Probably.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bruce
Date: 2003-02-19 06:15
The bidding on this deal looks really bad! Both losing bidders look suspect based on registration, lack of feedback and lack of other bids. I'm tempted to send a note to the buyer, but the only thing that would probably accomplish is to make them feel bad.
eBay can be great but it can sure be bad too. Buyers beware!
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-02-19 11:06
Hi,
I have successfully bought and sold clarinets on eBay and Jack is absolutely correct, no one held a gun to the buyer's head. However, for the price to have reached $750, the winning buyer would have had to have bid this amount early on and did about 12 hours before the sale ended so ....
I think what happened was the buyer was swayed by the "R13 bait" and/or did not do an analysis of what MMs have been selling for (Evette or E & S). This bid was IMHO way over-priced. But then, there was a Bundy Resonite Mazzeo that went for $150 a few months ago and we all know about some of the prices that Kaspar mouthpieces often bring on eBay.
HRL
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-02-19 14:21
The buyer can't do anything now, and after all, he did enter the top amount he was willing to pay for the instrument. But, we can file a complaint with eBay's safeharbor to watch this seller. If he is shill-bidding they will eventually catch him and shut him down.
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