 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Quido
Date: 2003-02-06 07:26
I'm a clarinet student around Grand Rapids Michigan (Yamaha is HQed here I belive) and one of my fellow students spoke of something called the Yamaha Effect; he says that Yamaha clarinets have a more consistent tone over the break, as opposed to my R13 which I've been playing on for about 6 years. Buffets seem to have a serious change in sound when going over the break, according to him. He let me try both of his Yamahas and we compared them to our two Buffets. When he played I did notice a smoother sound, but I couldn't really hear myself, being in a tiny accoustically unfit college practice room. I was wondering if anyone else had any observations about the "Yamaha Effect" and what their opinions were.
~Quido
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2003-02-06 09:40
well, i can only comment on my own experience (i played Yamaha Custom clarinets for years, but in 1998 replaced my B flat instrument with an R13). I found your observation to be true- and indeed if i use my Yamaha (A clarinet) barrel on my R13 playing across the break is much easier, the tone matches well etc. There is also a loss in tone in other areas (evident on "test recordings", not just the players "impression") when using the Yamaha barrel (which just goes to show that you don't get something for nothing).
i wouldn't go so far as to call this a "Yamaha effect", but it sort of supports what your fellow student says.
donal
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Author: HAT
Date: 2003-02-06 15:22
Brother. . .
#1 Clarinetists play smoothly across the break (good ones) not clarinets.
#2 Yamaha designed its clarinets by studying what was already out there, Buffet clarinets in particular.
Playing an hour of scales everyday will take you across all the register breaks hundreds of times in each direction and cover virtually every possible approach to them. Over time, WITHOUT EVEN BUYING A NEW CLARINET, you will notice this 'Yamaha effect" for FREE.
What a wonderful world!!!!!
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-02-06 15:49
<b>How to cure the "Yamaha effect"</b>
<img src="http://www.barrarhypnosis.com/images/watch.gif">
Your eyes are getting heavy. Now repeat after me: "Baermann III, Baermann III, Baermann III..."
...GBK
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Author: Mark Sloss
Date: 2003-02-06 15:50
A poor craftsman blames his tools. HAT's right -- you can't buy your way out of the challenge.
"The break" is a huge challenge to continuity of sound across the instrument, followed a close second by the other break into the altissimo register. Practice, practice, practice, practice, and practice. Did I say practice? Baermann 3rd division (scales, arpeggios, thirds, etc.), and even Klose practical and mechanical exercises. Every time you cross registers when playing any piece of music, focus on a fluid transition and consistency of timbre.
Don't get psyched by the marque on the instrument. If it is in good adjustment, you should be able to work it through. If your throat tones are congested, which might contribute to some discontinuity of sound, try some different barrels, mouthpieces, even reeds. More importantly, practice making those notes as clear, rich and sonorous as the long B when you cross the break.
Free is good!
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Author: Quido
Date: 2003-02-06 17:23
I never claimed to have a challenge going over the break; I do as well as anyone. What I was referring to was not smoothness of sound but rather clarity of tone on either side of the break, particularly, above it. I am not looking for a miracle cure for a problem that does not pose itself to me. I'm simply wondering if anyone had noticed a more consistent tone in Yamaha's over the break.
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Author: Mark Sloss
Date: 2003-02-06 17:51
"...he says that Yamaha clarinets have a more consistent tone over the break, as opposed to my R13 which I've been playing on for about 6 years. Buffets seem to have a serious change in sound when going over the break..."
Which is it, "smoothness", "consistency" or "clarity"? Regardless, your friend is ascribing characteristics to both brands that are more an artifact of technique than hardware. If you didn't notice the "effect" yourself when playing them, you probably answered your own question. HAT's advice stands -- master the instrument and these supposed effects go away.
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2003-02-07 01:21
wwoooooops
when i wrote "yamaha barrel" i meant "yamaha bell".... i was always quite skeptical that the bell would have much effect on the clarinets performance, but the swapping in this case suprised me with how much audible difference it made.
look- i agree with everything written above, and have to say that last time i played Brahms 3rd Symph 2nd mvt in an audition i did it on my R13 with the Buffet bell and it came out smoothly. This was because of the hard work i have done, not because of anything Buffet did.
on the other hand- Tom Ridenour (well known and respected by many of you) would support me in saying that if the resistance you feel either side of the break is more even, then you have to do less work to make it smooth. The LESS energy have to spend on aspects like this, the MORE energy you have for music. I mention Mr Ridenour because i had a conversation with him on this specific issue, and because this issue of evenness and balance etc is something he has mentioned in his writting and in his "press releases" for Leblanc Clarinets.
a bad worker blames his tools? very true- that is one reason why it is our responsibility as musicians to ensure that our tools are in top condition and are as good as they can be (which in the case of the clarinet means that the compromises made in design/construction are ones we can live with).
to Hat- yes to #1, and to #2, but maybe Yamaha decided that eveness of response was a higher priority than tone and took this into account in their design (and we each have to decide if we can live with that compromise)
to GBK- that was cool and certainly encouraged me to play my scales, but despite mentioning the mystical sounding "Yamaha effect" Quido was actually asking a legitimate question about instrument design, for all we know he has already won a concerto competition playing the Carter, and starts at Julliard in the Fall!
oh well, i need to go do some practise, and i'll definately do some scales regardless of whether i'm on my Buffet or my Yamaha.
donal
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Author: HAT
Date: 2003-02-07 02:43
Well, good luck at Juilliard, it's a great place to grow up fast!
Obviously, no 2 instruments play the same. Pick up a clarinet that is new to you and it will be different from the horn you play every day.
If something is easier on it you might be tempted to go out and buy one. That's fine.
But the register break is always a challenge. You have to use your ear to even the sound. A terribly uneven sounding break crossing on one horn vs. another (assuming neither horn is a lemon) is probably more a factor of the player and his mouthpiece than a general tendency in a whole brand of instruments.
In addition, as those of you who have played lots of scales will already know, crossing the break in b major or dflat major is a lot different than crossing it in c major or f major.
I guess I don't understand the meaning of 'less work.' Less work when?
Ultimately, you learn to play or you don't. Folks who don't learn to play sometimes spend more time trying to fix or replace the instrument itself. That is MUCH easier than spending 3-4 hours a day practicing, I know that for a fact. Practicing can be very boring and is rarely fun. But you do it because if you don't, others will. Which means they'll work and you'll shop.
Listen to Bonade, Marcellus, Wright, Brody, Al Gallodoro, young Buddy DeFranco, young Benny Goodman. That's clarinet playing with a capital C (connected to real musicianship with a capital M).
I mention them because they played on instruments that I would almost call 'antique.' I couldn't play them.
But they knew how to play and thus these issues of response characteristics were minimized. You rarely notice such problems in their playing.
Ultimately, we play phrases, melodies, lines, motives, figures, etc. We use the clarinet to do it. We have to learn to play so that our brain simply sings what we want to hear, and our well trained body plays the clarinet for that musical brain.
The training of the body is boring.
But the benefits are enourmous, as long as your brain actually HAS something to sing after you've trained it.
Lots of musical brains are trapped in untrained (sometimes sadly mistrained) bodies. That's a waste.
Good Luck.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-07 03:24
HAT,
As a professional (now in a different field than music, but at one time a professional on an instrument other than clarinet), I do believe that your tools influence your results to a greater or lesser degree. Surely practice is important, but if a tool allows you worry less about one particular problem so you can concentrate more on other - it's generally a "good thing".
I played electric bass. The introduction of 3D micro-adjustment roller bridges on bass guitars that allowed truer intonation on long neck instruments was a godsend - they allowed me to not have to worry about bending each note in a fast run on an upper range to keep things in tune. Instead I could spend more of my practice time thinking about tempos, hammers, slaps, plucks, etc. and then perform knowing that my intonation would be pretty much spot on for quite a while.One less thing to worry about.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-02-07 06:08
My main clarinet is a Yamaha and it is a good instrument. I have not noticed it is any easier to play across the break than any other. They are generally a smooth horn with good keywork maybe this helps.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2003-02-07 13:47
Mark,
I agree with you completely.
If an instrument is 'good' a good player will figure out how to play it within a very short period of time.
The body plays the instrument. The ear provides feedback on intonation, other parts of the body on resistence, etc.
I know some rediculously fine players who change equipment all the time. Their jobs put them at such incredible scrutiny that they are trying always for that last .01% of extra greatness (and I am talking about guys who are awfully great already).
Sometimes, they discover that the change was a mistake and go back.
On the other hand, I also know some very great musicians who never change anything if at all possible.
I know of several instances where principal and 2nd clarnet player play (or have played) instruments and setups so different from each other as to be incomparable. But the ones I am thinking of sounded so good together. . .like magic. It's all mental. Knowing how to play, knowing how to play 2nd clarinet. Using the ears and brains.
And you can only use your ears and brain freely when the rest of it is 'like a machine' (to use a phrase that is often meant negatively).
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Author: brenda siewert
Date: 2003-02-08 14:22
I agree about the R-13 requiring more skill over the break. But, they also require more listening and "pitching" skills than some of the Yamahas and Leblancs. The tone and end result are usually enough to warrant using the R-13 for some players. I love my R-13 for solo situations because of the wonderful flexibility I find in using it. However, I agree about Tom Ridenour's recommendation of the Leblanc clarinets because of their "smoothness" over the break.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-09 18:08
I own and regularly use several different brands and models of clarinets, as my collection is fairly widespread in that regard.
While I agree that nothing short of sufficient, productive practice makes a good clarinetist, I have to agree with Donald, Mark C. and Brenda in this respect.
I have instruments that are, mechanically, a bear to go over the break, then I have instruments that are a breeze, mechanically to go over the break. Then I have instruments that have excellent intonation and playing characteristica over the break, and some that don't, etc.
The mechanically easier ones are not always the ones with the better playing characteristics over the break.
And it has nothing to do with whether I am adept at going over the break, or not.
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Author: Brittany
Date: 2003-02-10 18:46
I have never even heard of this...I want to do some more research, though, it's funky. :-P
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