 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-01-09 02:20
Hi,
I have several older sax and clarinet hard rubber mouthpieces which have a great deal of surface discoloration. In some cases, the hue has a somewhat green cast.
I suspect that buffing would remove this discoloration but we all know that would be asking for trouble when we get anywhere around the facing and tip.
Does anyone know the chemistry of what has happened and is there any safe way to return these mouthpieces to closer to their original color in a safe and sane manner.
Thanks,
Hank
PS Maybe Omar can come up with a new product!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-01-09 02:30
Sulfer is part of the process of vulcanizing rubber. When the rubber ages, especially if exposed to excessive light or heat, it loses some of that sulfer. They turn brown and/or develop a greenish cast.
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Author: Marge
Date: 2003-01-09 03:40
For previous discussions on this topic, try a BB search using these search terms:
bleach mouthpiece color
Of course, what is safe/prudent to do (if anything) is not perfectly clear. It seems that some treatments could cause surface/texture changes. Developing a fondness for green (or green-brown) mouthpieces could be one approach.N
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Author: Bob
Date: 2003-01-09 10:36
Peersonally I consider this discoloration the same way I do silver tarnish.....and gray hair.....leave it alone, it's a sign of having successfully reached old age.
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Author: d dow
Date: 2003-01-09 11:52
Try using some armour all on them and they may return to a more healthy hue
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-01-09 12:30
Some great ideas. I'll let you know what happens.
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-01-09 12:42
Hi Everyone,
Marge's idea of a search for those parameters gave me more than enough and a great explanation from The Doctor as well.
Thanks everyone. Looks like just about any topic has been covered at some point on the BB. Inquiring minds want to know!
H
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-09 17:54
I've had an old Charles Bay, Ithica (hand written logos) that has turned brown, soaking for about an hour in bleach, and the brown discoloration remains. How long does bleach take to restore the black?? Would like to retore color of my old Chicago Kaspar if the Bay survives without damage.
(did a search but came up with no results--"cyberidiot")
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Author: William
Date: 2003-01-09 19:12
Should have listened to my mother when she was talking about haste and waste.......as the Bay dried, the brown faded. But what resulted was rather a ruddy finish where the disoloration was--not bad, just kind of "grainnie". The table, rails and tip were all unnaffected. Just thought you all might like to know.....
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-01-09 19:52
Going back to Hank's question on the chemistry involved, I've done a bit of looking into the hard-rubber mfgrg. processes, where a rubber elastomer, early a natural, essentially polyisoprene, [later a synthetic such as poly butadiene/styrene] is hardened to a "thermoset" resin by crosslinking the rubber's "molecular strings" with [usually] sulfur atoms, provided by metal [poly?] sulfides, principally those of copper and/or lead, others? Many differing OLDER processes were used, which prob. leads to the differing "patina" colorations seen. OMAR, and other chem-minded readers, please jump in/on what guesswork I am trying to develop. Having a local building with GREEN patina[d]-copper decoration made me look in Chem/Phy books, where many Cu compounds are green/brown colored. Will look in to patina chemistry next! So, my to-be-modified conclusion is that much of the older mp HR "stock" was hardened by Cu[x] S[x], which with age/exposure-to-light may form a surface patina by atmospheric-oxidation chemistry [unknown to me, as yet!]. As to removal/back-to-black, I'd suggest careful experimentation with the above-mentioned methods on a non-critical area of the mp. 'Nuff for now? Don
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Author: Hank
Date: 2003-01-09 21:30
Hi,
Nice answer, Don.
It appears that the light exposure is a catylst in the "patina" reaction and if the MP is not exposed, age is not as much of a contributing factor. So, treat your MP like a mushroom, keep it in the dark :-).
How the oxidation takes place if the MP is in the dark is beyond my chemisty and physics exposure (maybe that's why I didn't get into medical school).
Hank
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-01-09 21:46
It could be slow oxidation from the sulfide or the polymer-bound sulfur bridges to elemental sulfur which, by itself is, of course, yellow. But in a complex matrix such as this any color may result.
Henry
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2003-01-11 01:39
See your local tobacconist!!!
Years ago I used to smoke a pipe. The better brands (Dunhill, Charatan, etc) had hard rubber stems similar to clarinet mpc material and they would get a greenish haze on exposure to the sun.
There was a commercial product available for cleaning them, sold together with a polishing agent to use after cleaning. The kit was available at fine tobaconist stores and was non abrasive. It worked great......maybe try to find these little tubes of pipe stem cleaning/shining stuff in an online tobacco store catalog.
AS
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-01-12 02:05
I wonder if fluorescent lighting is a contributing factor.
Also, I have suspected the enzyme action of saliva, because the green is almost always worst in the area exposed to saliva.
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