 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-05 14:19
Congratulations, Josh -- does the baby have a name yet?
I saw a couple of these Patricolas this past summer -- first time I was ever aware of them. Now that you've weighed in, I'm sure they are instruments that belong on everyone's "short list" of brands to consider.
Susan
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Author: A_person13
Date: 2006-11-05 14:29
Wow,nice Patricola!That's one reason I've wanted to get a Patricola,because of how beautiful it looks.Let's just hope it sounds nice when it's older.
How much did you get it for?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-05 14:35
Play it in GENTLY! You don't want this one to split!
The wood on this one is excellent - all joints match up nicely.
Has it got a lined top joint bore?
Also looks like it has a low B-C connection - there's an adjusting screw that regulates the closure of the low C key to the low B key so you can play low D-B and D-Bb with the low B or Bb key without the ned to hold down the C key - but depending on how you play top Eb and E (if you use the low B key) this mechanism will muck up this note if it closes the C key.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-05 14:40
Her name is Francesca Rosalegno. *titter*
Patricola has been around for quite some time...when I was an undergrad, I played a Patricola English horn (in grenadilla), and it was a beautiful instrument. I deeply regret ever selling it...(although now I'm fixated on getting one to match Francesca!)
As for how their sound ages, it's of course an individual-instrument thing, but I had my Patricola English horn for several years, and it just got better and better with time. They take a great deal of care in making their instruments, and they have a very unique (to me, at least) gorgeous velvety round sound that only gets better as it gets older.
I got it for $4,895 (it is new), which I found to be rather a bargain, given the rosewood and gold key options, which on a new Loree, for example, would set you back about 8K, plus the wait time.
One of the things I like about the Patricola brothers is that they season all of their wood for upwards of 13 years before it's used to make an instrument, so the risk of cracking is SIGNIFICANTLY less than most other brands, who kiln-dry their wood for only a year or two.
(And I would DEFINITELY recommend that Patricolas make it to the short-list of anyone considering a new oboe...)
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-11-05 19:14
... oooh, what a beautiful baby, many many happy playing hours to you :-)
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-06 01:01
It is a bit blingy with the flash...here's a pic I took without the flash on. It's a bit less dazzling that way
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-06 12:56
My retinas still haven't fully recovered from the first pics!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-06 14:15
It certainly does make a statement, doesn't it?
I'll be using it in a rehearsal tonight...it will be its first unveiling outside the dark orchestra pit I've been using it in. Should be interesting to see the reactions!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-06 15:19
You should have seen the reactions from the others when I took a white Delrin XL oboe (with gold plated keys) to an orchestral rehearsal before it went off to Florida (I was 'play testing' it)!
The conductor commented that the A I gave them was worth it's weight in gold!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-06 15:25
Wasn't that the oboe that, a long time ago, was the image on the Howarth website? I remember thinking "I would shoot my sister in the foot to get ahold of one of those". I thought it was absolutely gorgeous.
Then again...I find the altuglas Marigaux with the gold-plated keys fetching. My tastes tend to run to the Liberace extreme when it comes to musical instruments (obviously...I mean, an orange oboe with gold keys isn't exactly subtle!)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-06 15:53
Yeah, that was made for a customer in Florida who saw the S5 in white Delrin when he visited the London shop back in the '90s, but that one got stolen from the display cabinet as it had the pricetag on it (though it hasn't surfaced or been traced - and I thought something like that would be difficult to pass on without raising any suspicion), so this XL was made to order for him and numerous photos were taken and plastered on the website.
As it was early in the year when it was finished, and Delrin being Delrin, the keys needed a lot of end play in them - especially the top joint trills and the feather keys (LH low B, Bb and Eb cluster) so they didn't bind up when it was cold.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-06 16:13
How was the sound? I would love to have played that oboe...I remember sending the website to all of my friends and having long AIM sessions about how we'd all have Carnegie debuts if only we had such a unique oboe :-P
In my head, it would have had a huge, warm round sound that projected for days....accurate?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-06 16:41
It did have a big sound from what I remember, though not as heavy in tone as a blackwood XL - the plastic ones do seem to be brighter and less resonant, though not unpleasant. The customer said it was 'awesome'!
It did project well - I think I was still playing on my Yamaha Custom (YOB-821TP) then as it was around 1998-1999, so there was no contest between the two - the XL easily won.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2006-11-06 22:47
"I would shoot my sister in the foot to get ahold of one of those". I thought it was absolutely gorgeous."
Josh, you're such a sucker for the extravagant. You crack me up.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-07 03:21
If you knew me in person, you'd totally understand ;-) I am generally totally over the top, but in a sort of fun way...this oboe is like, what I would be if I were an oboe.
Ditto on the white XL with gold keys! It's so...unusual! I've always just really loved things that make people take notice, and maybe chatter a little amongst themselves. *grin*
I took it to its first symphonic wind ensemble rehearsal tonight...the response was quite as I'd expected/hoped. I felt like Madonna for a minute!
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Author: Thomas.
Date: 2006-11-07 04:37
"Then again...I find the altuglas Marigaux with the gold-plated keys fetching."
Really? The prospect of everyone seeing exactly how far my spit travels down the oboe doesn't really appeal to me..... ;-)
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2006-11-07 08:53
I'm with you on that one. Although if you could see water actually gurgling when your oboe floods, you might have a decent excuse.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-07 14:03
I did indeed get it from WWBW...the price was too good to refuse. I was *thisclose* to shelling out CONSIDERABLY more than that for a cocobolo Fossati, but upon playtesting this one, this was definitely a keeper.
You should try one out...they're amazing. Also, if you have any questions or concerns, the Patricola brothers themselves are EXTREMELY nice, and respond to anything you ask very quickly. (I sent them an email thanking them for making such a great instrument, and to ask them a bit about the wood seasoning process/risk of cracking, and what their own personal preferences for how they would like their instruments to be oiled; Angelo responded in less than 12 hours)
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2006-11-07 15:21
Yes, WWBW is awesome to deal with. Thanks for the recommendation on the Patricola brothers and their great product. Good customer support is where it's at, IMO!
"You should try one out...they're amazing. "
I'd love to....I'm an oboe newby, definitely not in a judging phase just yet. ;-) I decided to take this up as a hobbie six months ago, bought the cheapest *new* one I could find -- A Barrington (don't laugh!) and I'm taking private lessons. Josh, I had no idea how much of a passion this would be come for me. I am sounding great and so love this new hobbie. I will probably graduate to a wood model in the next year or so. I saw this Patricola you bought in the WWBW magazine I received recently and just drooled! I will definitely order this one and maybe a couple others and try them out. First things first, gotta wear this one out first.
You must be a proud "daddy." Break that kid in gently!
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-07 16:06
I haven't always been a huge WW&BW fan, but this time they actually shipped it very quickly, and it was in beautiful condition. (And I'm really impressed that they even HAD it...)
This is the last oboe I plan on buying for a very, very long time...I am breaking it in gently, but I talked to the Patricola brothers about it, and they were very reassuring in their assertion that they naturally age the wood for a considerable amount of time, and they have a very, very low rate of reported cracking, which is a huge relief; I was TERRIFIED about the cracking thing when I was contemplating getting an exotic wood horn.
(Although...my clarinet is Honduran rosewood, and I play the HELL out of it, and I've never had a problem with it...)
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2006-11-07 18:06
That cracking potential is a scary thought! I'd hate to spend several thousand on something that could be potentially worthless. I'm sure with that aged wood, however, you should be fine and that's a great selling point on their behalf.
Now, I'm not sure where I heard this from or whether or not it's accurate:
Rosewood is less likely to crack than grenadilla and thus a better choice in that regard. I've also heard that rosewood has a less "edgier" sound than grenadilla.
This true in your experience?
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-07 18:30
Well, a crack isn't exactly the kiss of death. Most all cracks are easily fixable and you can continue to play for years and years on a (properly fixed) cracked instrument.
Rosewood is actually much MORE likely to crack than grenadilla, as it is quite a bit less dense and therefore more susceptible to fluctuations in dimension due to moisture content and temperature.
People do seem to think that rosewood is less edgy (or does not project as well), but I think that's poo. I have had no trouble being heard, even last night in a symphonic wind ensemble of 75, and my personal ideal of an oboe sound is one that is very smooth, round, and dark (Elaine Douvas/Hansjorg Schellenberger are my two current Sound Deities), so that's the sound I tend to (try to) produce on ANY instrument I play, wood species nonwithstanding.
My personal feeling is that the reed/player combo is what defines your sound...the wood just holds the air column, it doesn't vibrate nearly enough to affect the sound. (In the way that a piano/harp/string instrument's soundboard does) The difference in sound between reeds on the same oboe, to me, is FAR more noticeable than the difference between two oboes with the same reed/player.
Par example...I am currently working on the Fauré "Piece for Oboe and Harp", (most GORGEOUS. PIECE. EVER.), and I made a little test recording last night, and I actually had to just sit down and replay it, because I don't think I have ever sounded like that...it was creamy, dark, and almost clarinet-like.
Today, I made a recording of same, with another reed, and I sounded like I was playing a damned shawm.
(That reed was promptly wall-tested, btw...)
But, as with all things, YMMV :-)
Post Edited (2006-11-07 19:22)
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-11-07 19:20
I would imagine that it would be hard to see the spit from a distance, unless you had just drunk a bunch of grape juice...
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: A_person13
Date: 2006-11-07 23:11
"I'd hate to spend several thousand on something that could be potentially worthless."
Speaking of which,does anyone know why oboes are so expensive?They are usually made out of the same material as clarinets,which can range from $100 to $5k,but our range is $800 to $6k.Is it because the complications of making an oboe,or not many people know how to make it?
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-08 03:10
The demand for oboes is FAR less than for clarinets, and simple economic theory says that the less demand for something, the higher the price that the market for that product will support.
And it is rather difficult to make an oboe.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-11-08 06:35
BEU-TI-FUL, how i wish to have something like this, provided the sound is good, it really looks superb though -_-"
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-08 14:40
Compare how simple the keywork is on a clarinet in comparison to an oboe - an average pro clarinet is around £1680-2000 (GB£) whereas a pro oboe is over £4200-4600. A plastic student clarinet is around £400 whereas a student oboe is around £1200.
Clarinets usually have only the one adjustment screw, whereas pro oboes have over 20, oboes as well as having more keywork have more pads to seat, more keys to make and regulate, more springs and pillars to fit.
And demand is indeed far less for an oboe than it is for a clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-11-08 18:27
Could it also be that, with the smaller bore, oboes tend to be less fault-tolerant than clarinets? I posted here several months ago that I picked up my grossly cracked, obviously leaking old Noblet clarinet and got a pretty reasonable sound throughout the entire range. Contrast this with my old Prestini oboe which had a microleak somewhere that was only found and fixed in the last year, and which had pretty much held me back from success for decades. .
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: oboist
Date: 2006-11-08 19:18
Looks absolutely fantastic!
I am looking for fresh instrument right now .Would be great to have a chance to try some new Patricola.I used to play Patricola horn and an oboe 10 years ago for the year, and even recorded Frank symphony on a horn...and really can't remember how it was.I have changed my reeds since than so many times.Anyway congrets for marvelous oboe!!
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-08 19:27
In my personal opinion, the current Patricolas are the best yet, and if you can get your hands on an Evoluzione, you definitely should.
And thank you It's sitting on my desk at work right now, and I keep opening it and looking at it and giggling a little.
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2006-11-08 20:00
Wish I could have my oboe at work and play on my breaks. I manage a doctor's office...nothing but winey patients and doctors all day to deal with. Nice to home and blow my frustrations out.
What's your day job, Josh? Others? Any of you play music for a *true* living? God, if only.....
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Author: oboist
Date: 2006-11-08 20:05
I am full time pro oboist . I work and live in Israel and I am ass.principal oboe of one of the leading symphony orchestras in the country.
I also an oboe teacher in 2 conservatories and coach privet students at my home studio.
And it's not always fun...
Post Edited (2006-11-08 20:07)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-08 21:54
<Any of you play music for a *true* living? God, if only.....>
Well, yeah. I think what I wish is that I were GOOD enough to be a major symphony player. Whether or not I'd actually LIKE that job, I don't know.
I did work full-time for about 20 years as a choral conductor (in another lifetime, it now seems). Being in charge of a large-ish church music program, I found out what it is like to have all your nights and weekends committed, month after month, rain or shine, hell or high water. I did enjoy it, but it is not conducive to much of a personal life, except with others who work the same schedule. However, the grocery store is a lot less crowded at 11 p.m., after a late rehearsal.
Right now, I'm happy being a "good amateur".
Susan
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Author: Oboehotty
Date: 2006-11-08 22:13
I actually called WWBW today to have one sent to me to test! I play on a Loree AK about 5 years old. Unfortunately, the oboe isn't the one with gold keys, but it is violetwood. Perhaps, if I like it enough, I might order one with the gold keys (acid problems for me make gold keys a better choice -- more resistant to the nasty key fading stuff!)
I will have to report how I like it.
Shawn
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2006-11-09 00:42
do you know my friend demetrios karamintzas? i think he's principal of the jerusalem symphony orchestra. i went to school with him.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-09 04:14
Sorry for the delay! Just got home from my show...
Before this, I played a Fossati.
During the day, I work as a marketing consultant...which I hate. I make a decent amount of money as a pit doubler/private teacher (currently doing an Off-Broadway show), but I'm trying like heck to build up a nice nest egg to enter my 30's so I can stop this silly day work and focus on becoming a full-time musician. (And it will take at least that long anyway...AND, by then, my partner will be finished with his residency/fellowship and be a practicing gastroenterologist, so the financial situation will be vastly different Chez Josh.)
It's a tough life, this music stuff...but I can't imagine doing anything else.
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Author: oboemelli
Date: 2006-11-09 15:36
Amazing! Can I ask you about Fossati, please? Just recently went to their workshop in Montargis....
"People imagine they can reach one another. In reality they only pass each other by"- Schubert.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-11-09 16:14
As you can tell from previous posts on the subject, I absolutely LOVE Fossati oboes and English horns. Until I played this Patricola, I was preparing to drop a ridiculous amount of money on a cocobolo Fossati with gold/mother of pearl keys, because (again, until I played this particular Patricola) the Fossati oboes have been the only oboes I've played that have worked perfectly with me to create the sort of dark, creamy sound that I really like in the oboe, and they respond like a Ferrari...it's instant, and they will do whatever you want, whenever you want.
I also love their mechanisms (which I find very similar, nay, improved(!) on the Patricola), and I think the styling of them is absolutely gorgeous. (If you reeeeally look at a Fossati, I mean REALLY look at it, it looks like no other oboe. There is a sort of almost art deco grace to the outer curve of the bell, and the way the key linkages swoop into one another...). They also use absolutely beautiful wood.
While I am completely smitten with my new Patricola, I will steadfastly maintain that if you are looking for a new oboe, you MUST put Fossati on your list of things to try, preferably near the top.
(God, Gerard should start sending me checks in the mail!)
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Author: oboist
Date: 2006-11-09 18:31
I am looking for a new oboes right now.I have played several brands and frankly can tell I didn't find really great oboe yet. I personally can play anything on any kind of reed.I know what I need from the instrument and unfortunately haven't met yet a piece of junk that could answer all my needs.In 2 past seasons I am using Greenlines and they seems to be very close to ideal combination of color and stability
I hope once I'll be lucky...
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