 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ClariTone
Date: 2006-07-01 21:36
Hello!!!
I recently returned to the oboe and have a few questions concerning reeds. I am an accomplished clarinetist - All-State Band, All Superior Markings on upper-division clarinet solos at State Music Festivals, Full-Ride music scholarship to university, 1st place PSU Young Artist Competition playing the Weber Concertino, etc.
When ordering reeds, do I still need to start with the softest beginner reeds (medium soft?) or can I move up a few levels with my previous clarinet experience??
Where can one order reeds??? Sadly the local music store (previously a Ma & Pa store which specialized in Band and String Instruments) was assimilated by another local Mega-Music Store and has slowly been weeding out their Band/Orchestra personnel and thusly the quality of the merchandise has plummeted (It has been transformed into a Guitar and Drum store staffed by punk-rock kids with multiple tattooes and piercings, UGH!!!). I don't know of any pros in my area (Southwest Missouri, USA) that make reeds and sell them. I have heard of the Edmund Nielson Co. which makes reeds. They are categorized by the color of the thread (Blue, Red, Black, Pink, Purple, White, etc.). However I am confused as to which color would best suit me (Clarinet reeds aren't classified by color, lol!!!) since I have previous experience playing a reed. How do you know when to start upgrading strength??? When should I start using "American Scrape" reeds (from the beginning or wait til I have a firm grounding in oboe fundamentals???)???
Thanks for taking the time to read this long and drawn out post!!!
Clayton - The oboe playing clarinetist.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-07-01 22:31
Clayton --
Speaking as one (former) proud clarinetist to another, I just have to say I HOPE you are learning the oboe with the help of a teacher.
I was a really good adult clarinetist, but always wanted to play the oboe (events in my younger years conspired against my doing that). So a few years ago, I set out to learn this instrument of my heart's desire.
Because I am a good musician already, and have never met an instrument I couldn't play, I just figured I could teach myself the oboe.
Wrong. Double wrong. Triple wrong. Quadruple wrong. (You get the drift . . .)
My teacher says, and I heartily agree, that it is especially dangerous for a clarinetist to self-teach on the oboe. A trumpeter would have a better shot at it.
So, while I guess there's nothing wrong with fooling around on the oboe for a summer pastime, you would be doing yourself a huge favor to get at least a few lessons FROM AN OBOIST (not a bassonist). And if you can find one to teach you, you can probably also get that person to make you some decent reeds. In the meantime, take a look at these threads from the search function here (works just like the Clarinet Board search function).
http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=10&i=1632&t=1628
http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=10&i=3125&t=3094
http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=10&i=722&t=182
http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=10&i=1624&t=1404
One commercial maker of *really* good reeds I would add that hasn't been mentioned here before is the Cleveland Reed Company http://www.clevelandreedcompany.com/
Good luck!
Susan
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Author: ClariTone
Date: 2006-07-02 01:22
Thanks Susan!!!
I had tried to use the search function but couldn't get any relevant threads. Will check these out!!! I begin lessons soon!!! YAY!!!!!
Clayton
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-17 16:19
Please take ohsuzan's advice to heart.
My husband joined the union as a professional clarinetist 58 years ago. Needless to say, he plays the clarinet very well. A year ago, he took up the oboe (when I began playing - just encourage me, I think), anyway the oboe is a different animal! Playing a clarinet reed for 58 years did not prepare him for playing an oboe reed - at all!
Also, he fusses about his tone, phrasing, breathing, and all manner of problems that he's encountering on the oboe...all the while I notice that he is holding the oboe like a clarinet....huge mistake! So, please take some lessons.
Also, if you buy reeds, try reeds from different sources. You may find a source that fits you to a tee. My oboe teacher (who does play professinally) buys her reeds from Forests.com and while they are perfect for her, I've finally realized that the reeds that I've bought from the reedery.com and from Denise Plaza-Martin are both much better for me. So, even though I'm a first year student I'm passing on this advice - try lots of different reed makers.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-07-19 02:51
<<When ordering reeds, do I still need to start with the softest beginner reeds (medium soft?) or can I move up a few levels with my previous clarinet experience?? >>
When in doubt like this, start with some medium soft and get some medium at the same time, only you can tell when you start trying to blow oboe reeds which is easier for you to get results
Please remember to wetten up your oboe reed in clean water before attempting to blow it, and don't wetten up in your mouth. Also, good to flush reed gently with fresh water after playing too. These are different habits to make, but these do help keep the small oboe reed cleaner inside and delays digestion of reed fibres.
<<Where can one order reeds??? ..... have heard of the Edmund Nielson Co. which makes reeds. They are categorized by the color of the thread (Blue, Red, Black, Pink, Purple, White, etc ..... confused as to which color would best suit me ..... when start using "American Scrape" reeds (from the beginning or wait til I have a firm grounding in oboe fundamentals???)??? >>
I don't shop USA so can't help you with where to order reeds there, check out other posts (including many older ones on this BBoard) for their suggestions
Or, DIY Private Eye by looking in the Yellow Pages for local suppliers close to you, or in next big town/city close-by, etc. Also search engine to pull up online double reed specialists with catalogs, browse thoroughly, compare prices, & choose those closeby so you have more chance to drop in and see them yourself once in a while. Still, better to order across states if prices better for same thing, or if company is really better deal overall (speedy order & mail service, variety of available items, prices, etc).
The Nielsen website does attempt to explain their colour system, but as a beginner on oboe you need to find reeds you can play, so look only for descriptions of easy student reeds, whatever color they are.
<<How do you know when to start upgrading strength??? >>
General guidelines here -- medium commercial (taper cut) oboe reeds will play about 15-20 minutes until they get too wet to play and collapse (aperture closes up). Softer reeds won't last that long (maybe 10 minutes).
Main problem with soft & medium reeds, can't get strong sound out of them.
OK, during duck & geese awful tone phase, thank goodness!
Now, how long can you comfortably play continuously while training your oboe embouchure?
If you can only play maybe 10 minutes before your lips can't go any more, a medium soft will probably last long enough, why pay that bit extra for a medium when you can't play it long enough (yet)? Reeds don't last very long, they're a high turnover disposable item rather like toilet paper, kleenex and paper towels, and would you pay through the nose for these things? (Learn to make your own eventually, but leave that for now)
If you can play 30 minutes, a medium will maybe last that long. When you can physically play over 30 minutes, you start rotating reeds, mediums every 15-20 minutes for each hour of play.
Medium hards are better when your embouchure is in really fit condition, they play longer and louder too.
Rotating reeds by playing them lightly every day extends their cumulative playing hours over weeks instead of blowing them out in a few days.
A medium reed has about 10 playing hours in it.
This spreads out shopping demands for new reeds to once every 4-6 weeks or so, instead of more frequently if you only have one or two reeds played all the time. However the downside is that each shopping trip will be a big price affair, as you'll want several reeds at once. When ordering by mail, it's a good idea to check postage & handling expenses, and try to order the maximum stuff covered by their minimum rates.
If, however, your medium commercial oboe reeds (these are tapered like clarinet reeds) start closing up in 10 minutes, your embouchure's too strong (euphemism, it may also be too tight), go to hand-made reeds and stay on them after that. However, think playing about 12 months is about right to develop oboe embouchure enough so it can actually loosen up, beginners really tend to overbite. Clarinetists have strong lower lips but their upper lip needs balancing for oboe playing. This is what will take some time getting used to.
During this embouchure training period, it's more economical to use the commercial reeds. When your embouchure's in better shape, that's when to go to hand-made reeds (aka American scrape). These are contoured and shaped on the surface, quite different from taper cut.
BUT ... well-made hand-mades play better even for beginners. It's a matter of availability and how much you want to pay for reeds. So yes, do experiment.
Any reed you can't play now (after pre-soaking it enough!) can be put away safely for later. Make sure it dries fully before storing, especially important in your semi-tropical part of the world. As your embouchure improves, you will find more reeds you can play.
And, any oboe teacher you do sign up with will have their preferences, go with what they want you to do. They may want you on hand-mades right away, because hand-mades can be adjusted a bit to suit you better, but taper scrape can't.
Thanks for reading through this lengthy reply, do these ideas help you any?
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-19 05:26
I don't know about ClariTone, but it was very helpful for me. Thanks for being so thorough.
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Author: ClariTone
Date: 2006-07-20 05:02
Alright. Got my reeds out again today (took a few days off...![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) ) and I had no problem. All registers responded reasonably well. I am very pleased. Guess I just needed to play them in a bit. Thanks Again for all the replies!!!
Clayton
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-04-15 09:17
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I am very new to oboe (coming from clarinet and saxes) and making good use of the search function read through this post.
I would particularly like to hear confirmation, debate or disagreement regarding one of vboboes comments in his excellent post above.
"When you can physically play over 30 minutes, you start rotating reeds, mediums every 15-20 minutes for each hour of play."
Does this mean that for the sake of the reed longevity, you play short and rotate - or does this mean that if you are playing for an hour, you might expect a reed to change with moisture and use such that it should be rested and allow to dry, and therefore changed to a new one to continue playing?
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-04-15 14:06
Hi Chris --
In my experience, there is no hard and fast rule about how long to play a particular reed. I have some reeds (most of them, actually) that will take just about whatever I hand them. But on occasion, there are reeds that kind of peter out after an extended playing stint, only to revive after being rested. If your reed is getting soggy or unresponsive or hard to blow, give it a rest. The only "tip" I have here is not to oversoak them in the first place. They do not need to be sodden to work. In fact, I find that they work better with just a few minutes in the water. Shake or blow the excess water out before you put the reed in the instrument.
I do rotate my reeds, and find that on any given day, one reed may work better than another reed. I have no idea why this is, but it happens. Barometric pressure?
I played from *almost* the beginning on hand-made medium-strength reeds (after a brief time using commercial machine-made reeds). And I did not ever experience much tiring of the embouchure -- I could always play as long as I wanted to. But that may be because I already had well-developed clarinet chops.
There is an enormous amount of variation in reed strength from maker to maker. One person's medium is another person's soft; some mediums are actually more like some other medium-hards. There are so many shape and gouge and scrape variations among oboe reeds, I doubt that it would be possible to standardize these designations. You just have to try a bunch and use the ones that work best for you.
The only "tip" I have here is not to use a very resistant or "heavy" reed, especially not right away. Given a competently made reed, the quality of your tone depends more on what YOU are doing rather than what strength reed you are using. Some of the best oboists I know use very light and easy reeds to produce a luxurious dark tone. You do not have to blow on popsicle sticks in order to sound good.
Best wishes,
Susan
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2010-04-18 04:30
The idea behind rotating reeds is to be breaking in several reeds at the same time, because that way you have a "stable" of decent playable reeds. It's not because the reed needs to "rest" as such; it's just that the more you play on it, the quicker it will wear out. So if you have a good collection of playable reeds, all of which you rotate and play for short periods on each one, then you'll never be in the position of having THE Reed (capitalized), i.e. the only reed you're using, go abruptly toes-up on you in the middle of a session, leaving you with nothing to play on but brand-new not-broken-in reeds.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-04-18 04:45
Hi Dutchy
I understand that - I have played clarinets (SAB) and saxes (SABT) for some time now and that principle is common to single reed instruments - only new to oboe.
My interest was in whether, in a single sitting of playing, an oboe reed might reasonably be expected to play for a finite time.
Chris
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2010-04-21 14:55
No. I have never heard of oboe reeds abruptly giving out in the middle of a performance (although of course other oboists' mileage may vary). There's a gentler curve there, where you gradually become aware during practice times that this particular reed will soon be giving up the ghost, and you get a new reed out of the box and start breaking it in. Generally, depending on how long you play every day, for people who play for hours and hours every day, I would estimate that you have about a one-week grace period to realize that this reed has about had it.
ETA: Every oboist does, however, bring spare reeds to performances, but this is more to guard against accidental breakage issues rather than the problem of a slowly-wearing-out reed suddenly quitting on you. They don't generally work like that, you usually have plenty of warning that it's about done.
Post Edited (2010-04-21 14:58)
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2010-04-21 22:54
Dutchy says there's "a gentler curve" than simply giving out.
But when you're in the middle of a concert, and you're playing a big solo, and it closes up more than you're comfortable with, that small amount sure can seem like a big difference!
I played a concert Saturday where I knew my two best reeds had about an hour or two of good playing time left on them. In the middle of the concert, they both gave out. I was playing on one, it collapsed so I switched for the next piece, and that collapsed immediately too. The response got mushy, They started getting bright and whiny, and collapsed. So I did know that they were close to their end of effectiveness, but there was a moment when they went from full and rich to small and dead.
Cooper
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: Alphons
Date: 2010-04-22 10:57
Every concert a new reed that you break in the week before,that is my solution.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-04-29 04:17
I've had reeds suddenly go 'dead' too. It's a bad moment when it happens in a concert.
I'm not sure if one can really predict this or not. Sometimes I put 'dead' reeds at the back of the box and (when the weather drastically changes and no other reeds will play) 'resurrect' them another time.
You have to be careful, and get to know your cane and how reeds respond to your kind of playing and all that.
Lots of factors, INCLUDING weather!!!
GoodWinds
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-04-29 16:57
<<Sometimes I put 'dead' reeds at the back of the box and (when the weather drastically changes and no other reeds will play) 'resurrect' them another time. >>
I do this, too. In fact, I just about never throw a reed away, unless it has cracked or had some other irremediable destructive calamity befall it.
Some reeds do "recover" (which probably means they weren't really done-for in the first place). It's one of life's little victories to go back through the used reed drawer and find something that plays very nicely!
Susan
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