 The Oboe BBoard
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-08 01:33
Okay...
My dream oboe to try would be the fox 300... but as it is both outside my price bracket.. and nowhere in Aus that sells it...
Can you please tell me what you believe is 'essential' mechanism.
All my grade 8 pieces are covered by the mechanism of the S20c....
so I'm not sure how essential the rest is!
Thanks in advance.
And PS... would resin actually be sturdier.. or would it just be harder to fix if it broke?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-08 01:53
Extra ps... I really enjoyed my tom sparked when it was free blowing.. which it isn't now.
I want to enjoy playing.. and have a good tone.. without necessarily having to the 'darkest' tone.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-03-08 03:22
Hi Sarah. My Howarth S2 Thumb Plate (now 62 years old) has the two LH trill keys for D and Db/C#. Semi-automatic octave keys The RH D trill key. The low C/B/Bb connection that enables you to play the two lowest notes (B/Bb) without pressing the C key. The side F resonance key that enables you to use the fork F without pressing the RH Eb key. The two 'essential' keys that it doesn't have are the LH F (long lever) and the RH G#/Ab. The latter is the one that I miss the most but there is a way to get around this by 'finger jumping' which is not all that awkward. In fact I haven't as yet come across a trill situation that can't be done in some way on my S2. Bearing in mind that the S2 was actually a 'profession/ semi-profession Oboe in it's time. And for it's age it hasn't got a trace of a 'blown out' sound to it. It plays beautifully in tune and tone. Obviously it has been looked after very well in the past. I notice that Howarth has a reconditioned one for sale at the moment for 1600 pounds (approx$Aus2700) The same sort of price I payed for mine from Richard Craig.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2017-03-08 06:46)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: wkleung
Date: 2017-03-08 08:26
Are you looking for a list of essential mechanisms that will get you through ABRSM Grade 8? Many of the trill mechanisms won't be needed for most of the Grade 8 pieces. By picking the three exam pieces strategically, you can do with the bare minimum.
For ABRSM Grade 8, the low B-C sharp articulation is important, particularly if you cannot slide or roll your right hand little finger from the C key to the C sharp key. The low B-C link, usually a hindrance for my day-to-day playing, is essential for the slurred B major apreggio. The right hand Ab key is essential for the F sharp major scale (two octaves), if you use the long fingering for the high Eb. If your oboe doesn't have a left F, you will need a very good forked F, which means the forked F resonance mechanism is almost a necessity.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-08 18:39
Any instrument with near to full Gillet conservatoire system will take you beyond Grade 8. The only piece of mechanism most high end student oboes lack is the split D#-E trill mechanism for RH finger 3 to give a well tuned D#-E trill. The instruments in this category are:
Cabart 74
Fox 330
Howarth S40c or S45c
Rigoutat Riec
... which have everything found on a pro level oboe except the split D#-E trill.
If you don't particularly find the need for the banana key or the side G#-A trill key, then the Strasser-Marigaux 801 or Yamaha 400 series would suit you.
I'd also suggest you look for a used pro level oboe as they can often be bought for less than the price of a new higher intermediate model, but do make sure any used oboe has been well maintained, regularly serviced and is ready to play when you get it otherwise you'd often have to pay to have it serviced yourself by an oboe specialist if you buy it privately (unless that was done before it was put up for sale).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-03-09 08:07
I actually completed my grade 8, LTCL (Trinity College) and my first year of a performance degree at university, on an oboe that was marked Rudel Carte ( It was similar to the LM 5 but not) and it was very basic. it was not so easy but that is what I had. Nothing was articulated, forked Fs were unvented, open ring system and simple octaves...G was just a hole. However the oboe sang like a dream and was one of the nicest little oboes I have ever owned. I have a similar (but more advanced) Triebert (Cousenon) from the 1930s that has a similar quality and I have played most of my repertoire that I have played on my more modern Fossati. However, I rarely use my LH F and instead tend to favour my forked F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-09 14:49
I do know players that have done Grade 8 on a basic thumbplate system oboe (Howarth S10, Buffet Artist, UK spec Bundy, Italian made Louis LM5/Howarth B/Selmer Sterling/etc.) - thse oboes have simple 8ve keys, only the LH3 C-D trill and no LH F key, so they are really pushing such a basic instrument to beyond its limitations by that stage - usually a basic thumbplate instrument is designed to take a player to Grade 3 and at a push Grade 5, so hats off to anyone taking them to Grade 8.
The Howarth S1 (their first pro level model oboe) wasn't all that more advanced mechanically to the S10 or the B model - the main mechanical difference is the S1 has the RH C-D trill key and the LH2 C-C# trill key. The S2 was the next model in line and has the semi automatic 8ves and sometimes a LH F key and RH G-Ab trill key if that was ordered - the LH F key and 3rd 8ve was more or less standard on them by the 1990s by which time players started to change over to dual system full Gillet conservatoire models (Howarth S5 and all the French imports).
In the UK, the Loree-built Cabart 74 was one of the first commercially available semi pro model oboes in the '80s which had nearly everything (apart from the D#-E trill mechanism), then by the late '80s Howarth added the S40c to fill in a gap in their lineup (which by then was the Italian B model, the S10, S20 student models and pro level S2, S3, S5, S2XL and S5XL).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-13 04:19
Thanks everyone this is very helpful. I think i would like to be able to do the dipABRSM as well.. but i don't think i have any ambitions to go further than that!
I have the Left F and never use it. So I was wondering whether it really is essential or not. And yeah... I haven't used many of the trill keys etc.
Interesting about the C# link to B.. I have that on my tom sparkes, and never thought it wasn't standard.
Would the howarth S20c have enough mechanism?
(PS from my other thread... the oboe is leaking quite readily since the crack repair done with carbon fibre.. I discovered when i tried the vacuum test. and had no trouble 'breathing in and out' through the joint with the keys closed. Okay.. not breathing freely enough to survive with it permanently placed on my mouth.. but obviously there is a leak)
About to start another thread! hehe....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-13 20:33
Howarth S20c (conservatoire system) is probably the only oboe in this category that has the articulated low B-C# - it's essential if there's no B-C link fitted should you want to make a legato B-C# or a B-C# trill which you won't be able to do easily on oboes with the fixed C# and no low B-C link.
This means you can hold down the C# key and the low B key closes it automatically for the low B or Bb. The LH F key is also standard on the S20c, so a fairly high spec oboe for a lower intermediate model.
Most student level oboes won't have the articulated C# - only when you get into the semi-pro level (Cabart, etc.) and upwards does it become standard. The low B-C link is mainly a UK, German and Italian thing - but even then, some makers don't fit it as standard. Some export model Howarth S20c and S40c/S45c have been built without the low B-C link fitted, but most will have it fitted in such a way the adjusting screw can be backed right off to disengage it completely.
The regular thumbplate system S20 made mainly for the UK market (as opposed to the optional dual system S20c+TP) has the B-C link, so a low B-C# trill can be done by holding down the low B key and trilling with the C# key (as the S20 has a fixed C# key). The regular S20 doesn't have the LH F key fitted as standard.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-13 22:14
Thanks so much for explaining that!
Could u also please explain what an articulated c sharp is?
Also Chris have u tried the tiery e30? And if so, what did u think?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-13 22:17
Lol
Ok
Forget that. I just realised that the articulated c sharp is another term for the link!!! I shouldn't type a reply before having coffee! It's 5am and I am about to practise before my three stooges wake from their sleep...
Question for the tiery however... Would have been asked when I was caffeinated up too so still counts. 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-14 04:06
I had a Fossati Tiery J40 (dual system version of the J10) which is the same spec as a Howarth S20c - it didn't have the articulated C# (but had the low B-C link), although more recent ones do. Very nice oboe - very similar to a Rigoutat Riec.
The E30 is a full Gillet conservatoire system oboe, so has everything you'd expect to find on a pro level oboe, so well worth considering:
http://www.fossati-paris.com/instrument.php?id=13
The Howarth S50c is the same spec: http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pid=985109
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-27 01:40
Chris P ...
I feel a little bit honoured when you answer a question. I feel a little bit like i have been given an audience with the queen, and i feel too worthless to look her in the face!
I have never played an oboe with less than the full complement of keys!
I have asked some american shops but not had helpful answers.
I don't want a heavy instrument... basically. the lighter the better. But I'm afraid if i didn't buy a full system i might regret it later...
And the one time i tried the howarth XL i think, i felt it was quite heavy. at least compared to my tom sparkes> I realise that heavier can make a darker sound. But honestly, I am happy with a 'nice' sound, it doesn't have to be the darkest.
Are all the howarths heavier than some of their equivalents (like the tiery's which are incredibly cheap! and hence tempting!)
Would i be likely to miss the extra mechanism much if i had something with equivalent specs to the fox 330 or howarth s40c?
Is resin (as in the fox 300) likely to be heavier than the wooden counterparts?
I am so frustrated that I can't just go somewhere and try a range of oboes side by side!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-27 21:58
Hi Sarah - no need to bow or curtsey as I'm just a regular bloke!
I reckon the Howarth S40c or Fox 330 will have pretty much everything you need - the lack of the D#-E trill mechanism really comes into play when playing in E Major or minor or any pieces with a D#-E trill in them where the mechanism tunes the E while the LH Eb key is held down. Otherwise you'd have to trill with both RH fingers 3 and pinky together. Gillet designed the mechanism so the majority of trills can be made by trilling one finger only.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
