 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Lux
Date: 2017-02-16 16:46
So, why isn't this key standard on the oboe and oboe family? In all the billions of years of playing the oboe, I have never once used the aux C/banana key and would much rather have a left C# than that awkward C key.
Your thoughts?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-02-17 00:34
It's not the simplest of keys to fit in any configuration, but it is standard on some handmade oboes. I think it's standard equipment on Hiniker oboes, but an optional extra offered by most makers.
The standard long lever style LH C# key needs extra pillars and different keywork pieces compared to oboes built without it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-02-17 21:14
Another mechanism that would be good is a double articulated Eb key so both LH and RH Eb keys do the same thing instead of just the LH Eb key having the articulated feature, so a low Bb-Eb or B-D# slur can be done without sliding.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-02-18 12:20
In my estimation, from a manufacturing standpoint, making a left C# standard should cost just about the same as making- a touch lever (albeit longer than a "banana key"), two posts, a short hinge tube, and a cross lever to the C# hinge tube.
In my opinion, left C# should be standard on al professional model oboes, and I have lobbied oboe makers for years to no avail so far. A few years ago, I heard from two oboists who took an audition for a major symphony orchestra. Both said that on the sight reading piece presented, unless you happened to have mastered the banana key, or be fortunate enough to have a left C# and were accustomed to using it, the piece simply could not be played.
Another mechanism that is worth a look is the "automatic F" (E#).
With "automatic F," the E# key is articulated and closes when the E key, D key, or the low C key is pressed down. Loree made some instruments (mostly automatic octave system) with an "automatic F," mostly from the early 1980s and into the 1990s.
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-02-19 11:04
heckelmaniac wrote:
> Another mechanism that is worth a look is the "automatic F"
> (E#).
> With "automatic F," the E# key is articulated and closes when
> the E key, D key, or the low C key is pressed down. Loree made
> some instruments (mostly automatic octave system) with an
> "automatic F," mostly from the early 1980s and into the 1990s.
I'd need to see a diagram or the actual keywork to fully understand how that works.
I've seen Ludwig Frank cors fitted with a closed F# key that opens when LH1 is held down - an easy thing to fit on cors by means of an arm soldered to the RH1 key barrel fitted with an adjusting screw that makes contact with the top side of F# pad cup. It's a feature of Viennese oboes and gives the Baroque/Classical venting of G, but they need a more elaborate system of linkages and levers to make it work. On most oboes fitted with a particularly heavily sprung F# key (to override the forked F vent spring) that may not be possible due to the relatively light springing of the RH1 fingerplate, unless both parts of the split RH3 D#-E trill ring and bush are sprung and can therefore fit a far lighter gauge spring on the F# key as a result.
As for the LH C# key, ask an oboe keywork mounter what it's like to fit a LH C# key and they'll probably tell you what a nightmare it is. And that's the usual long lever style one which isn't the most aesthetically pleasing lump of metal by any means.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: borris
Date: 2017-02-19 14:15
I could not understand what the described "automatic F" system does. Did you mean, it is used for the "F# key free" C or Bb? The explanation would be appreciated.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-02-20 06:13
On the majority of modern oboes, the F key (E# key) is "direct action."
With automatic F, the F key (E# key) cup vent is on a lever separate from the F key touch that is much like relation between the C# touch and the the articulated C# vent lever. With "automatic F," when the F key touch is pressed it allows the F vent key cup on the separate (sprung) lever to rise.
The beauty of an "automatic F" is that you can play E, D, or low C with the left hand F key touch lever depressed. Makes some difficult technical passages much easier...
Oboes.us
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Author: JRC
Date: 2017-02-22 06:17
This would be nice... I can jump from F to E/Eb/D/C#/or C without using forked F. I always disliked the sound of forked F fingering.
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Author: borris
Date: 2017-02-22 11:01
You can do it with a left hand F (without the "automatic F" mechanism)
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Author: oboeandy
Date: 2017-02-23 01:44
I'm not understanding how it would be possible to play an E (natural) with the left F key pressed down... Am I misreading some part of your explanation, Peter?
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-03-01 03:41
My error! Not the E. With "automatic F," you can play Eb, D, C#, and C
with the left F lever depressed...
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-01 04:38
So if I understand that right, the F key pad cup is articulated and linked so the RH3 fingerplate can close it while the F key (either one) is held down.
The regular F touchpiece is what keeps the pad cup closed with its heavy spring (via an arm making contact with the F key pad cup) and the pad cup opens under its weaker spring like any articulated mechanism. There's not a lot of room to fit all that in what with the forked F vent mechanism there as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-03-01 12:06
Hi Chris,
Yes, correct.
Usually found on a Loree oboe model from the 1980s/1990s named
after a Dutch oboist (I can not recall the name).
This Dutch named model has automatic octave system (some have auxiliary second octave key touch),
"automatic F," "solid D key" touch, though with a modern version of the Bleuzet system
for D#-E trill- this "back door" version of the Bleuzet system is often found on
older Selmer Paris English horns and Selmer Paris oboes having a "solid D key."
I have only ever come across a couple of such Loree model oboes.
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-01 13:29
And best not to mention Selmer Paris oboes ever again or I'll go into meltdown.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-02 17:40
Bundy oboes are much better players than Selmer Paris oboes - not even sure why they made oboes to be honest. Their cors anglais and (French system) bassoons were the better of all the double reed instruments they made.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2017-03-03 02:28
I started the oboe with a Bundy, circa 1950. A fancy case oo...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-03 16:28
Attachment: P3010001.JPG (701k)
Attachment: s5 001.JPG (698k)
My No.2 oboe for outdoors or cold churches is a glorified (and heavily modified) Bundy. I've thought of fitting a LH C# key to it as I've done to my S5, but have resisted temptation.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-03-03 22:13
There is a Loree oboe with "automatic F" mechanism listed on the German version of the most common internet auction site: #201839590321
"Oboe Loree Qualitat Frankreich, Paris" The "automatic F" mechanism can been seen in the photographs from several different angles...
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-04 00:54
Found it
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2017-03-06 12:22)
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-03-06 05:09
I see this thread, and i think.. nothing is standard on oboe it seems! one of the only instruments to add mechanism ... required as you progress the grades! You don't need the extra flute mechanism to do a diploma, for instance. But you won't survive on a student oboe.. and they aren't even at student prices..
Even at the top level.... I have noticed lots of things. not standard...
Oh well...
hmmmp
The joys of trying to find a second hand oboe that I can both afford, and has the mechanism i want...
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