 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: RichardR
Date: 2012-08-12 01:41
hello, I am a Boston composer and am in the midst of an orchestral piece. Is it reasonable to ask a professional oboist to play a chromatic scale, 2 octaves G up to G and back down to G in 32nd notes, quarter = 120? Thanks.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2012-08-12 02:01
I have seen only a few who may be able to do going up to 3rd-g in that speed. I have yet to see one who could do come down from there in that speed. Difficulty is with 3rd-f, f#, and g. Not sure if any one could do every notes in tune, going up or down between 3rd-e and 3rd-g.
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Author: RichardR
Date: 2012-08-12 02:21
Thank you. Would you by any chance know if it is possible on flute?
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Author: RichardR
Date: 2012-08-12 02:39
How about G to G, quarter = 120, 16th triplets on a whole tone scale?
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-08-12 02:50
In my experience, flutes can play in the upper ranges faster than oboes can -- they seem designed to do that. I don't know what flute extremes are, but I know oboes aren't designed for that sort of gymnastics. Oboes speak too slowly, and have too many cross-fingerings, for that sort of thing.
I reserve a special place in u-no-where for composers and arrangers who think an oboe can double a flute in the altissimo (lots of them seem to be writing that way for wind ensembles). It takes an enormous amount of time to master the fingering combinations (they are not straightforward), it sounds hideous, and nobody can hear it anyway, most of the time. A total waste of time, IMO.
In general, a high "G" is playable by the oboist, but we don't really want to live there. Oboes are for tone and color, not for shrieking fast licks.
Susan
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Author: JRC
Date: 2012-08-12 15:11
Oboe is fundamentally a d-instrument that was forced become c-instrument by adding keys. It missed Boehm engineering period largely due to wrong idea of sound that Boehm had. He tried with large tone holes and relatively higher conicity to promote brighter and louder sound, much like saxophone. It did not catch on. Oboists, typically and historically, are more concerned with sound quality than ability to play fast passage in a wider range. So it is reflected in oboe repertoire, perhaps except Pasculli and a few contemporary composers. More and more younger players do handle Pasculli these days. It is not only the speed but also with perfect double tonguing and circular breathing. But do not expect most well paid orchestra players to be able to do that.
Its fingerings above 3rd-c are some variations of 3rd harmonics of the bore. The 3rd harmonics of an oboe tends to be sharp. The variations of fingering largely originate from closing or opening additional tone holes from the 3rd harmonics to make the pitch come out close enough for lipping up or down a little bit to correct it. Some oboists use different fingerings to adjust for particular instrument. So, there is little systematic fingering that flows above 3rd-c. Therefore, oboe is basically good up to 3rd-c with occasional higher notes, typically up to 3rd-g. Skilled professional oboist can extend the flowing range to 3rd-f but they are not many. Even fewer can go up to 3rd-g. I have yet to see any one come down smoothly from over there chromatically or in any type of scale.
Some can make sound higher than 3rd-g but I am not sure those can be considered musical tones. On the other hand, fundamental concept of musicality is changing. I heard Nicholas Daniel bragging about producing 3rd-b and higher notes by holding the reed between teeth not lips. I do not personally consider those musical notes. Perhaps you might.
Saxophone also has a conical bore like oboe. But unlike oboe, saxophone was designed fundamentally promote brighter and louder sound. Also unlike oboe, it is designed as c-instrument from the start and with Boehm engineering. Fingering dexterity is much more flexible and smoother than oboe. Just listen to Charlie Parker and any beebop era saxophone players. But the range limitation is just about the same as oboe and 3rd-octave fingerings are as clumsy as oboe.
Flute is a cylindrical bore instrument, which was engineered by Boehm. Its fingering flows to nearly full 3rd harmonics, 3rd-c and even higher with skilled players, with flowing fingerings and mostly in tune. It is much better engineered system. But it sounds like flute, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view.
Post Edited (2012-08-12 15:57)
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2012-08-12 18:57
I'm sure there are superb soloists and orchestral principals who are capable of doing what you ask.
But, IMHO, you should ask yourself whether you want your music to be widely performed by many orchestras worldwide, or only by the select few that can meet your technical demands?
J.
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Author: RichardR
Date: 2012-08-12 19:09
Thank you for taking the time to send me such an interesting and informative reply. I decided to move it into the clarinet. Kids in my high school band could play high G on the clarinet. Thanks again.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-08-12 19:39
Joung Cook, thank you for a thorough and elegant explanation of the challenges in playing the upper tones on an oboe! I am sure I will refer to this again!
Susan
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-08-13 00:11
Once I was hired to play a piece called "Dentistry Music" for a new music concert by a composer named Carson Cooman. It had been commissioned by an association of dentists in St. Petersburg, Russia. It had many high Gs in it but only as individual notes. One could only conclude that the high Gs were representing the pain encountered in the dentist's chair! It went well and it paid well, but I'd rather play other oboe music.
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Author: Oboe Craig
Date: 2012-08-13 00:48
The 3rd octave g is a decent enough landing place after a fast upward diatonic or chromatic run.
As JRC notes, coming back down is a different matter.
A whole note scale up and down is actually worse. Look at a fingering chart and you'll see why. Multiple fingers sliding across multiple keys. Not a good idea.
Still, landing an upward gesture is very doable chromatically, and even more so if some gliss. is employed.
A decent turnaround point chromatically would be high e for many and f for some. But not at very fast 32nd notes.
At that speed it is just a smear of sound. Fingering approximations can provide that, though.
Post Edited (2012-08-13 01:42)
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Author: RichardR
Date: 2012-08-13 12:57
Yes you are very correct, thank you. The first statement is in the flute and I wanted contrast for the second. Now I've got it in the clarinet, and, being a former (terrible) clarinetist, I am fairly certain it's no big deal.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2012-08-15 04:11
As a pro flute player and with an accomplished clarinettist in the household, they are the two instruments I would pick first for such a passage. Most reasonable flute players could play a two octave G-G chromatic in 32nds without much trouble.
Good luck with your composition! I did a fair amount of orchestral composition when I did my undergrad, but went a bit hard at it and kind of burnt out the creativity candle (plus things like making a living got in the way :0 ). I have the utmost respect for the time consuming process that it is! Best wishes.
Rachel
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Author: RichardR
Date: 2012-08-15 15:41
Hi, Thanks for your reply. Yes, I've decided it's flute, then clarinet. Even on the computer the oboe sounded a bit odd. I've reduced the notes to a whole tone scare - effect is the same. If you're at all interested, I've written a Reverie, Theme and Variations for solo flute. I've also transcribed the Sarabande from the Bb Keyboard Partita of Bach for solo flute. They're at my website, http://richardratner.com .
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