 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-30 18:52
So as a marketing tool I upload videos of my playing to youtube. The channel is on my Resume/CV, and today I added my first oboe video. Here it is:
http://youtu.be/5I3NOnXUTxE
I will rerecord, as this was recorded near the end of my practice session, and I was tired and excited, so there are some slap tounging issues and a few minor kinks. Anyhow, just happy to be making headway.
Drew S.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-30 22:19
Susan, you can be MY oboe teacher anytime! You're always so encouraging on this board. I wish I could take lessons from you on how to teach oboe, it must be VERY fun.
And Drew, NICE JOB!! And very brave of you to put yourself out there where all of us can cheer you on.
GoodWinds
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-05-31 02:08
Well, I meant my comment as a sincere compliment -- from one whose chin used to wiggle way too much!
Drew, I think you sound amazingly good, given the extremely short time you've been at this!
Susan
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-05-31 12:46
Are you breathing through your nose?
I think you shouldn't do this because it's too noisy and also you can't intake or exhale large quantities of air quickly in that way. If you're worried about upsetting your embouchure when breathing, don't be because if you already have a stable embouchure, then opening your mouth to breathe won't upset it and it will also give your chops time to relax.
You can keep the reed against either your top or lower lip when breathing so it'll still be in place and ready to go once you've taken a fresh breath.
Circular breathing is a different matter and you can only exhale/inhale through your nose while still playing in this manner. But in regular playing, always breathe through your mouth as it's far quieter and more efficient.
Microphones and nearby players will pick up noisy breathing, so practice breathing in and out on its own and especially breathing quietly instead of gasping - I was told this at primary school by my class teacher who used to do studio backing vocals as the last thing you want to hear on any track is noisy breathing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-31 13:56
Thanks everyone for the compliments, and the help along the way. These boards have been my only teacher these last 4 months, and I couldn't have come this far without the input you all share here. I wouldn't suggest this learning strategy to anyone else, and would suggest a private tutor, but unfortunately it is the only option I currently have. Maybe I'll be able to get a lesson or two from one of the guys in the Philadelphia orchestra sometime this year.
I play saxes, flutes, and clarinet (bass clarinet as well, but poorly) in musicals here in Philadelphia. Mainly for high schools and colleges. I'm hoping oboe will help me bridge a gap to the next level. I rented a Fox 333 oboe from Forrests in the beginning of March, and have recently tried a bunch of used oboes, finally choosing the oboe in this recording, a Loree C series.
Thanks for your continued support.
Drew S.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-06-01 14:57
Drew, I think this video and comments should help you concerning the choice of instruments you made.
What Oboelips said in the other thread is invaluable. But also consider the very different needs of a doubler/multi-instrumentallist. If you do (and I hope you do) continue to play all the other instruments, then what you need is an oboe you can count on to make your life easier, not one that will require you to spend huge amounts of time mastering it.
I have not played many Foxes except for on2 2011 English Horn: that one impressed me for its feeling in the breath, dependable tuning and even sound. Then, I tried a 2011 Lorée E.H.... WOW, a feeling of freedom (compared to the Fox) just blew me away...... and later I tried an antique Italian EH.... the Lorée paled in comparison for its ample sound and free blowing and fully stable notes throughout the entire range.
Fox oboes COULD be a really good choice considering the following. Granted post 2000 Lorées play perfectly in tune and "wholfing" notes are much rarer, compared to Lorées of the 1980-90's. But they still have stuffy notes and resistance. Even the AK models are not the easiest things to play.... compared to the Howarths I tried.
The multi-instrumentallists I have known were obsessed with trying and comparing saxes, clarinets and flutes (oboes were harder to get hands on).
So your video seems to show promise that this was a good instrument to start off with. After months of improvement (rather than years for someone with no previous woodwind abilities), you'll be able to compare and perhaps decide to keep this on, or exchange for another.
Another thing, I don't know about clarinet, but flute and sax allow you to blow much more air volume than oboe, especially American Scrape reeds. Just to try out the comfort of oboe alone and also moving back and forth between instruments, you might want to try some short-scrape reeds.
=> I'd recommend asking Bret Pimentel about this, he does American Scrape
http://bretpimentel.com/
Best of luck - you're on the right track!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-06-01 15:35
Robin and others,
All the comments I have read and received have been invaluable to me as a performer and oboist. It is nice to have discerning ears that are willing to impart their knowledge and offer advice, especially at a time where I am unable to afford the benefits of a good teacher.
As far as the C series and back pressure, truthfully, the C series had the most resistance of all that I tried, and I still find it a bit open. I believe I try to control the sound a little too much, probably because a lot of the music I play is so delicate. I have decided to play Chudnow CA nickel staples, which seem to feel bit more open than the Stephens 2, and opens up the tone slightly. It also brings up the pitch because more air is going through the instrument, and I seem to play sharp on even 71mm lengths. This will be quite a service to me when performing with cold trumpet players.
John Symer seemed to let me believe that the C series bore is more narrrow than the modern Loree design, and consequentially, may even be slightly longer than the modern Loree. I think this may be true, because of all the oboes I tried on my oboe stand, the C series was the only one that would pick up the stand when I tried to remove it. I think I may need to sand the stand a bit, this would not be good come performance time.
And it is really a strange phenomenon, but I was talking to Mr. Symer, and I think my notes at the bottom of the instrument are sharp, and I have to lip down low Bb, but Mr. Symer seemed to think the normal case is to play flat in this register. It is true that all the other instruments I tried seemed to play "normally".
I hope at the end of the year I would make a passable and hopefully considered professional oboist. I have approached all the instruments I play, that I would like my tone to sound authentic to the instrument, that I'd hope if I show up to a gig just playing oboe alone (or clarinet, sax or flute), that I could convince those around me that it is the only instrument I play. The road is however quite long. There are many instruments in my room that have been sitting a while, patiently waiting for the oboe to catch up to them, so they can all grow together. And there is still work to be done on all of them.
Hmm...that was a bit long winded. A side effect of working too hard. Sorry about that.
Drew S.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-01 17:44
Will you continue to breathe through your nose or not?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-06-01 18:27
I appreciate your concern Chris.
I did take another listen to the video, and it is quite annoying to hear the nose breathing. Kinda like an angry bull. I think there's so many little things I'm coordinating at once, that I just wanted to get a video out there. Maybe just as a little mini victory for at least just getting through the exercise.
The breathing problem was first on the list of a few changes that I've been making since I made the video above. I hoped to finish a new one today, but I decided that what I had recorded was still getting better, so I would take the next week and try to make it perfect, or at least as close as I can get it. I am having a bit of difficulty finding my position after I breathe through my mouth, but that's just a minor thing that I can probably solve this weekend. Hopefully silent breathing starting next Monday or sooner.
That note was/is very helpful, thank you.
Drew S.
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-06-01 19:33
This is something I am working on ... taking the breath (through the mouth) with NO noise!
As my teacher said ... you play the entire concert/recital well and what the audience will remember is the noise as you breathe!
Mark
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2012-06-01 19:36
Drew,
You need to do some breathing exercises ....... play a long note for 12 beats; let go of some air ... play for 12 beats .... let go or/take in some air etc...............repeat a few times ....
Mark
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-06-01 21:27
Practice breathing without an instrument first to see how you can inhale/exhale quietly, then once that's mastered (which is pretty easy), try it while playing.
sIt's something my clarinet and oboe teachers would make fun of if I took a noisy breath during a lesson, so that soon stopped once I stopped breathing loudly.
The problem with oboe is so much air is already stored up which has to be got rid of fast before taking in a fresh breath, so the risk of noisy breathing (especially exhaling quickly) is still there, but do try your best to reduce it.
But as for breathing through your nose, only use that when you get onto circular breathing which is much easier to do (and practice) on oboe than it is on most other instruments (and the glass of water method) due to the high breath resistance. But that's another topic which is much easier demonstrated than disussed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2012-06-02 02:40
Yeeeaaaahhhhh,
Every single great soloist and every single orchestra player I've ever known or heard breathes through the mouth as required.......
When the microphone is very close (like my you-tubes), sure you hear the breathing, but when the audience is 20 feet or more away, the breathing is not such a problem.
A worse problem is when your air gets stale in the lungs or any otherwise uncomfortable, your playing won't be at its best.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-06-02 10:16
I find the mixture of the oboe and the video process taxing. As I mentioned above, I am still adjusting aspects of my performance, which adds to fatigue. I am striving for perfection, so if I go to play a note and it doesn't speak or of it splits, then I stop and have to start at the beginning. I find that a minute and a half into a good my embouchure has trouble holding. This is probably because, even though the recording is 2 minutes, if I start and stop 4 of 5 times that becomes 10 minutes very quickly. Hopefully consistency will minimize this problem.
Drew S.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2012-06-02 16:07
You are a wise man to be open about your playing skills. In overall, you appears to be a hard worker and trying to get the basic stronger. That is the best practice to improve yourself from ground up. Here are what I saw as the fundamentals that can be improved. I hope you do not take it as trying to make you look bad.
1. Breathing: It was not very clear from the video but you appear to power your "play air" with your chest muscles. If you are doing so, you should try something called diaphragmatic breathing, abdominal breathing, belly breathing, deep breathing or many other names. You can look it up by googling. Basically your lower abdomen should inflate when you inhale and you will need to keep your lower abdomen inflated while playing. That will force your abdomen muscles to power and regulate the air pressure. You will find your sound quality would improve and it is easier to take hold of control of delicate attacks and endings.
2. Breathing: It appears that you are breathing through your nose. It is wonderful that your nasal passage is clear. Mine isn't at least during spring and fall allergy seasons. It is much more efficient and quicker if you do so through your mouth. One problem with this is that your saliva often gets into between the reed and the lips. You will need to find ways to prevent that happening. One way is how Holliger doe it. Watch his video (there are lots of them in YouTube). Some may not like the looks of it. But it appears to work. I try to imitate and seems to work most of the time for me. Of course when you are doing the circular breathing, nose breathing is a must but eventually you will need to open your mouth to take in a large amount of air quickly to relieve the anxiety. Unless of course you are so good at circular breathing that you do not need any relief. That case, I envy you.
3. Reed: You appear to produce slight imperfections sometimes when producing a note and making delicate attacks and endings of notes. Improvement on your belly breathing should improve this but some adjustments to your reed may help also.
4. Articulation: You generally have gentle articulation. Perhaps that is your style. There can be many levels of distinction between "tonguing" and "not tonguing"; from slur to spiccato. Making clear distinction between different levels sometimes make the music alive or make it hohmmmm.
5. Singing: Most oboists try to distinguish themselves through "singing" phrases beautifully. Articulation and dynamics are the two of the most important elements of "singing". Complete control over attacking, ending and producing each note without blemish make the "singing" spit shine. You could sing a simple scale exercise, etude, or especially "expressive studies" more expressively; that is "singing". Find music in the notes and try to "sing" it using dynamics, articulation and precise regulation of notes. You will know when you did it right.
I hope this would help. I apologize if any my comments insult you in any way. On the other hand you posted it and invited comments. I did not read any of the comments by others yet. I wanted to give you my thoughts without being influenced by others.
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