 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Geekygeek
Date: 2012-05-25 23:02
A lot of times, I play music alone, and sometimes together with my school band. When I play alone, after about 3 measures, the sound starts getting filled with water. It only happens when I tongue, if I don't, the sound is less controllable but there's no watery sound. I try to blow all of the water out of the reed and try to dry my mouth. So then, I have to take the reed out every few measures of practicing and blow through the reed to get the water out. How can I avoid this?
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-26 01:30
I'm by no means an oboe instructor, but if I were, I may try some of these tactics:
1. Hold the instrument bell up higher (so that the instrument becomes more parallel with the floor): Depending on how you hold your instrument, this could bring your head into a more natural position. If oboe is like every other woodwind instrument, and it probably is, you'll want to find a natural seated position with your head and eyes facing straight ahead, and then bring your reed to your mouth in that same position.
2. Brush your teeth: If there's food particles in your mouth, your body will naturally try to break it down. I also have a hunch toothpaste is dehydrating, cause whenever I brush my teeth my lips feel dry and it's harder to play the flute. (You are allowed to bring a toothbrush to school, I think a lot of students forget this, much to the demise of many a band instrument.)
3. You could try softer reeds, or squeezing the blades of your reed closer together: If you're biting or squeezing too hard with your lips, your mouth will produce more saliva as though you were chewing food. The less pressure you use with your lips/mouth, the less saliva will be produced.
Hopefully one of there techniques works for you, or someone else comes up with a solution that does.
Drew S.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-26 02:01
Hi
I've played for decades and due to nervous system problems have begun to develop the same problem.
If you're playing an extended passage, you can do a quiet 'suck' during a rest;
Use cigarette paper or something as absorbent (and old dollar bill was my teacher's favoriet) to soak up water/spit in any 'bubbly' tone hole/key;
When you have an extended rest, SWAB OUT THE OBOE, even during a piece if you have to.
If you remove the reed and suck it, PLEASE avoid making slurping sounds; these gross out your band/orchestra members like nothing else from oboe players.
Don't use cough drops before a performance. Or any 'tart' candy. Or (better yet) any candy at all. Don't do really spicy foods just before you play.
If you brush your teeth, use a mild toothpaste or just water. Alcohol dries the mucous membranes in the mouth and can either result in producing NO spit (which is bad) or the mouth can rebel and over-produce (which is bad).
With extended playing, you and your body will come to some agreement about not producing too much spit. But whatever, you know that SPIT HAPPENS and you have to figure out a way to deal with it.
GoodWinds
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-05-26 04:33
Hey, Matthew (Geekygeek),
I believe that what Drew says in his point #3 is on the right track, although I might explain it differently.
You MAY be playing with reeds that are too hard, biting them closed, but what I am pretty sure you are doing is starting each tongued tone with a burst of breath, which, of course, inevitably introduces saliva into the reed.
The reason this doesn't happen when you play legato (without tonguing) is because you are not spitting into the reed nearly so much -- you are just keeping the air going.
What you need to learn how to do is play as if every phrase were legato, and then use just the tongue, not the breath, to articulate (start or stop) the notes as indicated in your music.
The lips are just a muscular cushion with which to surround the reed. Ideally, you would be holding the reed with your lips just enough tension to prevent the air from leaking out, and you would keep steady air pressure throughout an entire phrase, using the tongue to start or stop individual notes as indicated. This takes lots of practice!
One great and famous oboist said we should always try to play "on" the air, not "with" the air. That's advice worth remembering and trying to do all the time!
Susan
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-26 05:27
...and Who was that 'great and famous oboist'? I like the quote and would like to use it for my students!
GoodWinds
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2012-05-26 14:59
What Ohsuzan said, about the explosive tonguing. When I was just getting started, I posted a video of me playing, and she pointed out (very kindly) that I seemed to be starting each note with a rather explosive noise, that I should perhaps try to start each note more quietly.
Second what everybody said above, about rinsing your mouth thoroughly before you play, and also about drinking only water while you play. I used to drink soda while I was playing, until one day I realized that the water that was dribbling out from the bell smelled like ginger ale, and that's when I realized why all my keys were always so sticky. lol.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-05-26 17:02
I am so obsessive about not blowing foreign matter into my oboe that I even worry about the gritty residue from the toothpaste after I brush my teeth -- rinse, rinse, rinse.
Ditto for brewed coffee. You know that sludge that you sometimes find in the bottom of a coffee cup? Well, I am one of those people who pretty much always has a cup of coffee somewhere close at hand. Then an oboe tech who was cleaning and adjusting my instrument mentioned finding odd little dark granules in some of the tone holes . . . Waah! No more coffee drinking during oboe playing.
I also carry floss picks as part of my standard equipment. Suffice it to say, ANY particulate material at all that was in your mouth can and will find its way into the bore of your oboe! Chewing gum stuck in your teeth? It WILL stick in your oboe, too.
Mary (Goodwinds), the "on the air, not with the air" maxim was related to me as having come from John Mack. The person who told it to me was indeed a Mack student, so I suspect that is the source. He did have a gift for the succinct phrase.
Susan
Post Edited (2012-05-26 17:04)
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Author: johnt
Date: 2012-05-26 19:41
Never eat just before a concert, either. And swab (or mop as they say in the UK) during intermission, then blow out the top tube tone holes against cigarette paper. If time permits, rinse out the reed (cork side up) under running tap water.
The original source of "on the wind" is Tabuteau; John Mack was quoting him.
Best,
john
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-05-26 20:14
johnt -- that was my other thought! Tabuteau. Good advice, in any case.
Susan
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2012-05-28 06:22
Back to spittle in your instrument ..
Spittle in your reed:
o Keep your tongue raised - don't ever let the tip of your tongue dip down to the base of your teeth where spittle gathers
o Don't try and suck out the spittle - this almost never works, and always sounds awful. Blow it through and out.
o Emergency - remove reed, blow through the staple, wipe (on back of hand), replace and play.
o Breathe in through your mouth, with your tongue raised - every breath you take will dry the tip of your tongue
Instrument and tone holes:
o Never, ever turn your instrument so that the tone-holes face downwards. Never.
o In a "well trained" oboe, spittle will always flow down the bottom of the bore and out of the bell.
o Drastic fix, if the spittle always flows into tone holes; with a syringe, run some soapy water down the bore of the instrument so that it flows down the channel you want to encourage.
o The most problematic tone-hole is the forked F vent. Dab it dry with cigarette paper
Octave keys:
o Use the 45-second octave swab maneuver, then keep the instrument dry using the advice above. It goes like this:
remove reed. remove top joint. swab. seal keys and bottom and blow hard into the reed-well. Flick the octave keys until the hiss sounds clean. dry the vents with cigarette paper. this time, suck hard into the reed well and open the octave vents. Swab. reassemble.
45 seconds is all it takes, and your octaves are clean as a whistle.
Hope this helps,
J.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-28 17:03
oooh, I love that 'octave swab clear-out' choreography!
Assuming it works as well on cor anglais?
Thanks!
GoodWinds
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Author: Geekygeek
Date: 2012-05-28 17:57
Haha, what if the swab get's stuck during a concert? I haven't tried these tactics yet because I'm away from home.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-28 20:21
PLEASE invest in a pull-through oboe swab, silk or micro-fibre, one with two (string) tails. You DON'T want your swab to EVER get stuck in an oboe, especially during a concert!!
GoodWinds
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Author: Geekygeek
Date: 2012-05-29 21:22
A swab won't cause much I assume, <$20? Any suggestions of a good swab? I see no need to invest in it. I contacted Hannah and she recommended a Fox 333, 330, or 300. Peter Hurd recommends a Bulgheroni FB091. Which one would be better, a fox 300 or the bulgheroni?
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-29 21:47
A really good pull-through silk swab can run you $12.
GoodWinds
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-05-29 21:56
Here's the swab I like best:
http://www.forrestsmusic.com/swabs.htm
Scroll down the page -- it's the one called "Silk Pull-Through Swab with Tail", priced at $11.00
The "WITH TAIL" part is very, very important. If, for whatever reason, you get a knot in the string that you don't notice before you put it in your instrument, you can very easily pull this one back out the other direction. Without the tail, a knotted swab will get stuck in the instrument and create the need for a visit to the repair shop. It happens. It has happened to me. I don't know how it happens, but it happens. The tail is a must!!
I can also vouch for Forrests internet order process. They are VERY fast at order fulfillment, and they are very knowledgeable about all things oboe.
Susan
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-29 23:21
A thought about swabbing oboes.
I used a pull thought swab when I borrowed a Fox 333 oboe from Forrests. It worked fine. I just purchased a wood oboe, and had a chat with John Symer. I don't know if this is true, false, of if he even said this, but I got the impression a pull through swab could effect the bore of a wood instrument in a negative way. I think plastic instruments are fine with the swab, but now I use the swab for the bottom joint if necessary, and only feather the top. It may also be that the top joint in my oboe seems thinner than the Fox.
Just a thought, if someone disagrees, I'm not passionate enough about it to pursue any argument.
Drew S.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-30 01:42
I might agree IF the swab felt tight on the pull-through. If it glides nicely, then I wouldn't worry. But I buy used instruments...
GoodWinds
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Author: johnt
Date: 2012-05-30 18:00
A trick I taught myself in swabbing the top joint with a silk swab: put the weighted end of the swab through the tube until the weighted end just comes through the reed ferrule, then grasp the joint by its tenon (cork) end & curl your pinky finger around the outside of the corked tenon. S-l-o-w-l-y pull the swab through…your closed pinky will stop any knot that may have worked its way into the swab. For the mid-joint & bell I use a second slightly larger swab (linen) from Mark Chudnow. I do this after practice sessions & during concert intermissions.
Of course, during measure rests in a concert it's not often practical to "break" the oboe to perform the above; then I would agree heartily with Susan, that a "with tail" swab is definitely the cat's pajamas. The great benefit of the silk swab, as my maestro, Bob Hubbard, has explained to me many times is that it tends to wick out moisture from the circumference of the top tube bore just below the bottom of the reed ferrule where those pesky condensation-catching octave holes lurk, owing to the shape of the swab. Never getting it stuck is a great virtue…which strict attention to detail during the process should prevent.
Best,
john
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2012-05-31 09:03
Feeding the swab in through the reed end gets rid of the knot & stuck swab problem totally ... well maybe 99.9%
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2012-05-31 14:35
@Ian,
you are correct, but personally I like the fact that my swab is open and loose while being pulled through the instrument. If you pull it through from the reed well it remains in a tight narrow strip and barely touches the sides, especially further down the instrument.
I wrap my weight with one layer of teflon plumbers' tape, and it glides through like a charm. I am VERY careful about knots, but I have a crochet hook in my traveling toolkit, just in case.
My swab-with-a-tail exhibited too much friction going all the way through, so I relegated it to the Cor Anglais top-joint. I have a regular no-tail silk swab that I flatten like a tie, fold once and then corrugate horizontally before wrapping with the cord (a trick learned from Chris, IIRC). This puffs the swab out when I pull through the instrument and makes sure everything gets swabbed.
Turkey feathers absorb nothing. All they can do is spread the moisture around the inside of the instrument, and occasionally moult and sweep debris into difficult-to-reach places.
You can buy pipe-cleaner type swabs for both joints, but I am a little wary of these. If Mr Symer worries about the friction of a silk swab, I am far more concerned about these wire pipe-cleaners!
J.
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-31 16:01
AND it goes in the same direction as the water's s'posed to.
GoodWinds
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2012-05-31 16:02
Pipe cleaner type swabs tend to leave little bits of 'fluff' in the bore and we DON'T want those.
GoodWinds
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