 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Katelyn
Date: 2007-05-01 23:27
To preface, this'll probably seem like a really obvious question, but I figure I'll ask it anyway.
As a general rule, if a first chair player gives up a solo to the second chair, but then decides that s/he wants it back, is it bad form to take it back? Assuming the director has no preference with either player, is the descision of who plays entirely at the discretion of the first chair, or if the solo was passed on is it now at the whim of the second chair whether s/he'll give it back?
Katelyn
"High school band is relatively pointless." - a quote that gives me hope.
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2007-05-02 00:21
As a general rule, I'd have to say YES, it's bad form unless the second chair really doesn't want to play the solo for his/her own reasons. Why not learn and practice the solo with the second chair, then wish'em luck on the performance !
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-05-02 00:53
If you're the first chair player, you play the solos. Period. If you're the second chair player, you practice until you win the first chair.
It's what everyone expects, and the hierarchy of the section is set up that way. "Giving" a solo to the second chair player violates the etiquette, and creates the problem you've found. Do it once and you'll be expected to do it again.
Don't feel guilty about playing the solos. You earned it. Stanley Drucker has been playing all the solos in the New York Philharmonic for 47 years. Sometimes he takes off the second half of a concert, and Mark Nuccio gets his chance, but Stanley sits second to nobody.
Ken Shaw
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-05-02 01:07
I had a similar problem this year. We played Molly on the Shore and I had the first and the last solos by default since the other girl would NOT use the LH C. I gave 2nd the solo to the 2nd chair person who would just NOT quit bugging me about it. She was 2nd chair and was no where near my level, could not even tongue the solo. I finally gave in after she created a whole scene so I could just get her off my back. Warming up before contest, her solo started to sound bad. My director had already told me to quietly play in the background and if she screwed up to come in. In the middle of the contest performance, I hear her whispering to play my solo. I was surprised and I played it to the best of my ability. I had tried to get the solo back from her but she was just too stubborn. She had always been the first chair player and never had to "report" to anyone. If you ask nicely for the solo back, you might get it depending on the person. If they are as stubborn as the person I described... you might not get it back, but be prepared if in the middle of something they just give it right back to you.
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-05-02 01:32
SVClarinet09 .... i think I read your story of that stubborn girl many months ago lol...
I wouldn't say its a "bad form", but i would say you're not really suppose to do that.
For example: You ***give*** $10 to your friend, you dont ask for it back (especially after he/she has spent it!)
or... If you *gave* your neighbor your Lawn Mower, you wouldn't ask to get it back (especially after he's sold it in an Garage sale)
This is because, *technically* once you gave something to someone, taht something is that person's...
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-05-02 01:33
Side note... SVClarinet09 , i always use LH C lol.... (I do both, just LH B is a bit "far" for me so i auto-default to RH C)
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-05-02 01:58
Quote:
Assuming the director has no preference with either player
IMO, the director should have a preference. He/she is the adult in a roomful of children, by the legal definition. Being the ruling authority, the director should make it clear if 1st chair of the section plays all solos, or if solos should be shared.
If I were the director, I'd tell that first chair to suck it up. They gave the solo away to the 2nd chair...that's life. Before the world became PC, we called a person like that an Indian Giver. If both kids start fighting over the part, I'd take the solo away and give it to the third chair.
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Author: ABerry
Date: 2007-05-02 04:03
I'm sorry folks, Ken is absolutely correct, the first chair player plays the solos. He/she has earned that rite by winning the first chair.
As for the director not having a preference, he or she has already made the preference by awarding the winner the first chair.
As for the players “fighting” over the part, there is no fight, the first chair plays the solos…However the director may allow the second chair a chance to win the solos by winning the first chair…Then we’re right where we should be…the first chair player playing the solos….
Allan
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-05-02 06:39
From reading the first post it is not exactly possible to know why the first player gave the solo to the second player, so I'm going to assume it was just by choice. In that case, imo it has nothing to do with "first chair etiquette". It is a simple matter of being nice to another person. Giving someone a solo and then asking for it back is just like giving a present and asking for it back (assuming the second player wanted to play the solo). If I gave a solo I wouldn't ask for it back simply because that is how I think people should treat other people.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-05-02 13:05
The first chair player has prerogatives, and I completely agree with Ken that the first chair plays the solos, period--but the conductor also has prerogatives, stronger ones, especially when directing a school group. What was this director thinking? Letting the second chair player subject the first chair player to bullying diva demands not only undermines the first chair player but diminishes the teacher's authority, too. What's next? Will somebody farther back in the section demand and get equal time on the solos because --sob!-- *it's just not fair*? When the director says, "I want a bigger crescendo at letter A," will the ensemble give a collective shrug and ignore the direction?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-05-02 15:35
I don't know why a first chair would give up a solo unless the solo wasn't something the first player wanted to do. In that case, if you pass it down to the second chair you should never take it back unless the director asks you to do so.
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-05-02 15:49
A school band I used to play in had 3 'solo' clarinets, all of equal capability. In rehearsal, the MD asked all 3 to play solos together. When a concert approached, he would pick 1 to play it in the concert and it became 'their' solo forever. He gave all 3 equal opportunity. This also meant that if one could not make a concert, someone else had practiced the part and could play it. very fair, very safe.
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Author: Katelyn
Date: 2007-05-02 16:00
Let me clarify a bit - the director has no preference on who plays the solo because the first and second chair players are of more or less equal playing ability, and are virtually interchangable (this is the high school level, after all). Both people were flipping back and forth a bit last year.
SVCLarinet09: I actually read a chunk of that thread before posting. Quite...interesting. I'm glad I don't have that problem all the time.
Mike: I talked to my director about it privately, and with his roundabout answers he told me he'd rather have the two of us duke it out. He offered to have us audition for the band and have the best one play it...but that sounded like too much hassle over what should have been an easy decision.
So the general feeling seems to be that I screwed myself out of a clarinet solo feature piece ("Presto Chango") with my wind ensemble my senior year for our last concert that should have been mine but I was too much of a wuss and gave it away on an whim because my nerves got the better of me the first time we read it. Great. And now I'm stuck with a six measure almost solo on an arrangement of "Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral" that we probably won't even play for the concert because the other kids are afraid of six flats. Great. And now probably won't get the 'Sousa' award because of it. Wonderful. Guess it's time to chalk another one up as a 'learning experiance'. Nevermind the fact that the second chair player and I are dating.
I hate high school.
Post Edited (2007-05-02 16:03)
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Author: Katelyn
Date: 2007-05-03 06:08
You're right, it is a good article. Kind of makes me think about what I have to work on to be able to really take the pressure, to really be 'worthy' of the praise it brings. I have to admit that I'm glad I'm figuring this out now, and not later.
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Author: vin
Date: 2007-05-03 15:30
Yes, but not everyone is ever going to be happy with what you are doing, and you have to accept that too. Graffman, the old Curtis President, and many older faculty members are incredibly upset with the changes Roberto is implementing, but he has got many, many people who think he's doing a great job. You have to stay true to yourself and your standards, but, as the article points out, with people in your section (whether it's Curtis or high school band) it is very, very important to make them feel respected at the end of the day.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-05-03 16:25
Ah, well if you and the second chair are dating that throws everything into a different light. Hmm. Lick your wounds and go on.
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2007-05-03 16:31
I learned along time ago the hard way that the decisions I make in life are my own. Right or wrong I live with them, and learn.
...Jim
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2007-05-03 19:53
If your the choosen leader of the band then you play the solos, simple as that. The other person should know the etiquette not to try and up-stage the principle.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2007-05-03 22:15
I second the opinion that, in general, the first chair always gets the solos. But if you give the solo up, then it now belongs to the second chair player. You cannot then ask for it back - that would make you, um, one of those people who gives stuff away and then asks for it back.
On the other hand, if someone is playing poorly on a particular solo, then the director has a right to go down the line and give it to someone who can play it better.
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Author: SusanT
Date: 2007-05-04 01:29
I was a high school player, back ages ago, and quite good at the time. I sat eternally second-chair to somebody who was marginally better than I was, thanks I think to the fact that his parents could afford lessons and so on that mine (and many in that town) could not.
Honestly, it's *a* solo. One. One song out of all the songs you will ever play in high school, in your life. While I would agree that in a professional setting, the best player should be doing the solos, this is high school. Twenty years from now, unless your life has gone *astoundingly* poorly, you will not care that one time you didn't get to do a solo.
There's a reason why high schools often do split up solos, because the point is not for one person to be totally spectacular, but to allow many people the learning experience of getting to try it. High school band is sadly often turned into a competition by the students when it should be about learning to be better musicians.
The awards and honors of high school fade away pretty quickly. So do the hurts and heartaches, thankfully. I would worry less about "ownership" of the solo and more about making the end of the year enjoyable. Especially since you're dating this guy, why don't you spend some time practicing it together? You could both give each other help on learning it, and even if you aren't the one who'll be playing it in the end, you'll know that your skill and help is also coming through in his performance.
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Author: Katelyn
Date: 2007-05-04 08:30
Thank you, everyone, for the perspective. It's something I easily lose track of while I'm trying to get my ducks in a row to graduate. I think you all know how much I appreciate it.
Katelyn
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Author: YoungFlarinet
Date: 2007-05-05 16:48
I didn't take all the time to read all of those, but let me share my story. Be warned it might get emotional.
I started learning clarinet, it was just something to do so I didn't have to take PE. Turns out my director found out that I learn faster than anybody he's ever had. In the middle of our first concert he turns to me and tells me to play the solo because the other girl on flute got sick. I had a ten second warning, but it was flawless (or as flawless as a ten year old playing three months could do). That was the end of my solo career though.
I do learn fast, it took me 12 hours to learn the flute better than half the people in my band (my main instrument is still clarinet though). But just because I learn fast doesn't mean I'm the best. There's another clarinetest, she started taking lessons and got ahead. For six of the seven years I've played clarinet she's been first.
Me, second, always second no matter what. The other girl is first in the state and very possibly the nation with how much she practices. Before he graduated there was anther clarinet player who was second to her (okay maybe I'm not always second, but that was when I was in my depressing rut and I didn't practice over a year) she always gave him a solo. So I thought, maybe I'll have one more solo before I graduate. Ha, no. Turns out she's just a big flirt.
I recently went to an honor band, the first honor band that's not allstate stuff I've ever gone to, where of course I got second, but it wasn't to the almighty first of our band, she didn't go. I got second cause I skipped an entire line in the sight reading. The first chair couldn't play high notes. She couldn't do one of the solos, it went too high for her. Direct quote from me, "You may think this is an absolutely stupid question that no one should ever ask, but you have this really good solo over here, and you are absolutely fantastic on it, then there's this one over here. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but it's not exactly the best solo I've heard in the world," and she was like "OMG YES! thank you so much!" She knew what I was going to say.
I finally had a solo, after six years of waiting I finally got a solo before graduating. No more crying all through band, every night, random times during the day, my wish was fulfilled. There is no way I can ever beat the first in the state/nation. She's a snob anyways, if I did she'd make my life hell.
Ever since the honor band, a few weeks ago, I've been the happiest person ever. I've never felt so good. By simply letting a second keep a solo can change there life. But if it's something important, not a stupid honor band that no one goes to or school band stuff, I'd keep it for yourself. In the end it's your decision.
Let it be known I would have given the girl the solo back if she wanted it. I understand how protective people can be of solos. She turned out to be the coolest person ever though.
No longer do lack-of-solo tears fall from my eyes. 
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