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 Re: Blowing terminology
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date:   2008-09-26 20:02

Arnoldstang wrote:

>> I think people use terms differently and with good reason.>>

Well, I'm sorry if that has contributed to the confusion.

As I said in one of the posts, I think -- one of the problems of the subject is that there is an avoidance in the literature of scientific terms like 'force' that would simplify matters if we were able to use them. And you can see why there is that avoidance: although 'forces' can be very, very small, the word has violent connotations that you want to avoid in describing the elegance and economy of excellent clarinet playing.

One fact that may have been obscured is: however long a muscle is, when it gets a signal from our brain to -- let's say, OPERATE -- it can do one and only one thing: try to shorten itself. If it fails to shorten itself, it still exerts forces on its points of attachment; if it succeeds in shortening itself, it usually moves those points of attachment, and may also exert forces on its environment as it 'bunches'.

In the case of the diaphragm, 'shortening' doesn't move its points of attachment, which are fixed; rather, the muscle flattens from its initial dome-shape and becomes more disc-shaped. Here it's the forces that are exerted on its environment that are important: the change in shape pushes down on the guts and expands the thoracic cavity so that air enters the lungs.

I have come to use the word 'flex' to stand in for the word 'OPERATE' that I used above. Perhaps that is ill-advised, as you have explained; but I was trying to avoid the word 'tense', which would have been accurate but had the wrong 'aura'.

I think this whole exchange has been very useful for me, and thank you for having it. Probably what is needed is a very detailed run-through of what is in the above paragraphs BEFORE going on to talk about support. Perhaps, even, we need to define a few terms that are out of the ordinary -- how about that word 'operate', then? -- so that the 'other' meanings of words like 'flex' don't get in the way.

Just to finish up -- do you get it, now, even if you have problems with the terminology?

Tony
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 Topics Author  Date
 Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 15:10 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-18 16:06 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 16:25 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 17:18 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-18 19:56 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 18:10 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-18 20:52 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 19:23 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 20:36 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-18 22:05 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 21:48 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-19 09:47 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-18 22:50 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-19 10:34 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-19 13:54 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-19 19:27 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-19 20:44 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-19 20:43 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-19 20:48 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-19 22:12 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-19 23:15 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 05:16 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-20 17:43 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-09-20 07:22 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 18:35 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 18:54 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-09-20 19:51 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 18:49 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-21 02:49 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 19:49 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-09-20 20:28 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-20 21:36 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-09-20 22:12 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 22:57 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-20 23:21 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Liquorice 2008-09-21 07:12 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-21 07:19 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Liquorice 2008-09-21 08:03 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
clarnibass 2008-09-21 09:50 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-21 10:18 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-21 18:58 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-21 19:37 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
rdc 2008-09-21 19:34 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-22 13:55 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-21 21:03 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-09-21 21:27 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-22 07:26 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-22 14:01 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
clarnibass 2008-09-22 14:33 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-22 16:14 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-22 20:14 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
rdc 2008-09-23 02:37 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-23 05:52 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-23 06:53 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-23 20:25 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-24 05:26 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
mrn 2008-09-24 12:54 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-24 13:45 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-24 14:17 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-24 18:03 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-24 20:30 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
mrn 2008-09-24 21:15 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-24 22:02 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
BobD 2008-09-25 11:35 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-25 14:40 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-25 16:13 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-25 17:04 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-25 18:46 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-26 01:04 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-26 18:35 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-26 20:02 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-27 00:21 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-27 10:24 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-27 14:39 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-27 14:44 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-27 17:49 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-27 18:03 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-27 18:23 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-27 18:32 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-27 18:52 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-27 22:14 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
sdr 2008-09-27 22:32 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-28 06:08 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
davetrow 2008-09-28 00:13 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-28 16:40 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-28 17:40 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
davetrow 2008-09-28 20:51 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-28 22:16 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
davetrow 2008-09-28 23:13 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-29 20:59 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-29 00:01 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-29 01:40 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-29 02:24 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-29 02:42 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-29 20:37 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-29 21:08 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Mark Charette 2008-09-29 23:02 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-30 01:00 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
vin 2008-09-30 03:41 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Sarah Elbaz 2008-09-30 08:01 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Liquorice 2008-09-30 14:36 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-09-30 18:10 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Tony Pay 2008-09-30 23:50 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-09-30 18:16 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-10-01 14:41 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
cigleris 2008-10-01 16:09 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
mrn 2008-10-01 17:57 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-10-02 13:21 
 Re: Blowing terminology  new
Arnoldstang 2008-10-02 13:53 


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