Keepers

Keepers The C4 standard

New Topic | Go to Top | Go to Topic | Search | Help/Rules | Smileys/Notes | Log In

Re: Improv! Now isn't this a GREAT subject?

Author: allencole
Date: 2004-10-23 19:11

I agree with Markus & Sue on one point, and disagreewith each on two others.

Point of agreement. The debate itself is fun, and I will freely admit that I greatly enjoy dissing free improv and post-tonality when they are presented as something more advanced than what the world generally accepts as music.

1st point of disagreement. (Markus) "Art that isn´t reflected, art that doesn´t k n o w i t s e l f as art, is just pleasing, some sort of aural wallpaper, muzak."

Actually, there is an oft-used saying that I'll try and paraphrase. It says that once art becomes self-conscious as such it becomes a contrivance and ceases to be real art. I have Googled this phrase and gotten a few hits, but can't find its precise text or origin. But the basic truth of it seems obvious to me.

2nd Point of disagreement. (Sue) "You know, this conversation about what is and what isn't music really doesn't have an definite answer. Can't we just leave it at personal preference and be done with it?"

In terms of this thread, there is a definite answer. A person without experience in the area of improvisation has brought up the subject and wondered about how to approach it. I have tried to present to her two things. First, that the most practical approach to educating yourself as a musician is to at least learn to do the things that others learn without formal instruction. Second, that a subjective "I you think it's music" approach is unproductive if not outright harmful in that it leads away from practical skill building and towards internalization. The world of art music had gotten a bit bass-ackwards this way, and many musicians outside of this sphere have some very serious questions about what we were doing in college.

You could eschew the use of kitchen cabinets and hang your goods on strings from the ceiling. It would be distinctive and add color and motion to your kitchen. You could call it a mobile and think of it as art. But it would would be incredibly cumbersome to the process of making your meals and putting away your groceries. It would also make it both difficult and/or undesirable for most of your friends or family to assist you in the kitchen. And it would hinder--not help--your concentration on creativity in your cooking.

Even if we accept that free improv and/or post-tonality represent a more advanced way, we have only seen them be successful with first-rate musicians who are intimate with each other. Most of these kids will need to work their way through far more pedestrian situations with less experience and frequently changing partners. I submit that they are better off learning what everybody else knows before they enter into areas of music that require extensive education (or academic brainwashing) of their listeners.

Markus brought up the question of why no one, prior to him, had brought this alternative up in a thread by a young player looking for starting info. This has been the real subject to the debate, and I don't think that we've strayed that far. Although again, I do enjoy reminding the avant-garde crowd about the charlatanism that continues to creep into these things. And I generally smell charlatanism when I hear claims that normal tonality and structure are imprisoning and dulling young minds.

I would counter that the need to be different, revolutionary, or 'artistic' for its own sake causes levels of contrivance that throw aside real artistic expression as uniqueness becomes the primary goal.

Going back to the cooking analogy, I could tell Mary that all she needs are supplies and equipment, and she can cook anything she wants. In reality, it would be better to start with something obvious like boiling a hot dog, and then move towards boiling something a little less obvious like an egg. Let her experiement with timing, and see what kinds of results she gets. If anything goes, I could start her off with frying but that would represent both greater difficulty and confront her with physical danger. Better to get some experience first. If we really gave her an 'anything goes' scenario, what would stop her from simply putting a live animal in the microwave?

In another post, I'll present specifically what I think would be a constructive approach to the original question.

Allen Cole

Avail. Forums | Flat View

Newer Topic | Older Topic

Topics