 The Ethnic Clarinet
|
Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-11 00:00
I posted this on the general clarinet BB but since it is klezmer related, here goes.... I play in a community klezmer group and I was considering trying a C clarinet, partly because of transposition issues. What are some of the considerations in switching to a C? I noticed that there is a "Woodwind" brand C clarinet available somewhat cheap....I wonder if that would be a good place to start
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Andrew Gardiner
Date: 2005-02-11 21:04
I was in a similar sort of situation. I had a C clarinet because I became interested in its tone before I started klezmer, finding it useful when playing with others in mixed instrument groups, so klezmer was a good opportunity to play it more. In general I think it has a smaller sweeter sound, somewhere between the clarinet and recorder at times, though high up it can be very bright and strident. I think of it as having a pastoral quality about it that makes it good for folk type music.
It takes a little getting used to at first: your fingers are closer together and even slight accidental touching of rings and keys can block the sound. Also the upper register (above top C) needs work. I think there's a general rule that the shorter the clarinet, the more difficult it is to play in altissimo register (the A clarinet is a little easier than the Bb in that respect?). Intonation can sometimes be a problem. I think they have a reputation for that! Mine is certainly flattish up top, but that's a problem in many modern clarinets. Otherwise it seems not too bad. I bought it new (Noblet student model, wood), as I believe they are very hard to come by second hand. Overall I have been very pleased with it and for the last 6 months have played it almost exclusively. Lately I have been dreaming about owning a Wurlitzer C-clarinet (reform Boehm system), as I imagine this to be a very good clarinet, but they are extremely expensive! Has anyone any experience of them?
Andrew Gardiner
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Andrew Gardiner
Date: 2005-02-11 21:20
Sorry, I should have said something about the mouthpiece. I use a copy of an old fashioned one which has a long close lay and requires a hard reed. It produces quite a focussed sound which I like and sounds 'older', and that contributes a lot to the sound of the clarinet. I think regular mouthpieces would work fine though on modern C instruments, all depending what kind of sound you want.
Andrew Gardiner
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: chipper
Date: 2005-04-04 14:58
Last Saturday, 4/02/05, I had the pleasure to hear a man named Joel Rubin play klezmer on his 'c' clarinet in Ithaca, NY. He was a bit stand offish when I asked about the instrument but did say it was a 'c'. The concert was wonderful. It consisted of works collected durring the late 1800's, early 1900's in Eastern Europe. These works were thought to have been destroyed by Stalin in the 1940's but surfaced in 1995 in Kiev. Dr. Rubin studies this material and this was the first time this stuff has been played to the general public in memory. It was not your typical klezmer wedding dance music but was more folksey and, dare I say, earthy. I could feel my Ukraine roots deepen. He also brought a tsmbal player and the Cornell Klezmer group played on the last melody. I believe Dr Rubin has a web site but don't know it off the top of my head. A definate must research for any klez player.
C
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2005-04-05 00:41
Merlin Shepherd (sp?) plays klezmer music exclusively on an Albert C instrument. Naftule Brandwein also played on a C instrument.
In my 50-plus years I have only seen two advertisements for used C instruments, one Boehm and one Albert. The Boehm was pretty bad, and the Albert (as vouched for by a very good player) was pretty good.
If you really need a C, my suggestion is to get the best instrument you can. Many, at all levels of cost, have big problems - the scale can be uneven, the altissimo notes can all be flat - the same problems that a lot of e-flat instruments have. Don't expect to get a really good, budget-priced C instrument, and don't expect anything in particular of the "professional" instruments, either.
Above all, go play on as many brands and models as you can, and decide what level of performance you really can afford.
What you will get for your money is a perhaps less flexible and very much brighter sound than from a b-flat instrument, but certainly not so much in those directions as an e-flat. You also get the unheard of luxury of being able to read C charts without transposing in your head.
I think Stephen Fox's C instruments are the best, but the cost and required trips to Toronto will be out of range for many people, and there are some new choices I have not tried.
[I am not connected to Mr. Fox in any way except that he sold me a clarinet.]
Regards
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-04-06 04:33
Hi:
We Greek folk musicians use the C "Albert" or "simple" system "klarina" (clarinets). I've been playing C's since 1963. My first was a Conn, hard rubber clarinet that I bought from an Armenian who played a C Boehm clarinet. These C's are wonderful instruments, especially in "Albert" system. Go for it! You can find them on ebay. I recently bought a Buffet in rosewood. It turned out to have a beautiful tone and is absolutely a great player!
I have sold 3 or 4 of them in the last year.
Good luck!
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Christian Dawid
Date: 2005-04-20 07:06
>We Greek folk musicians use the C "Albert" or "simple" system "klarina" (clarinets).<
Good to know! My Greek colleagues (violinist Kyriakos Gouvendas et al) told me that most musicians prefer the lower instruments now, but I like hearing that C is still a tradition in Greek music.
In klezmer, most players who at one point have been exploring the older European style to some extent, prefer C instruments. Among those players are Joel Rubin, Merlin Shepherd, Kurt Bjorling, I myself -- Andy Statman still likes to use a Eb every now and then -- it's an appreciation for the 'sweeter' -- or more annoying? :-) -- sound. Merlin plays an old Albert Buffet from 1899 or so, I tried a 1920s Kohlert once, but switched back to my Buffet Prestige, which indeed is somewhat flat in the highest register, but still the best I could find. Kurt Bjorling plays a very interesting Stephen Fox, which sounds more similar to the German bore (better focus), solved some of the intonation problems but also created some new ones, I'm afraid. But excellent instruments, I agree.
Christian Dawid
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-07-05 18:25
An update on my "C" clarinet search. I bought an Amati C clarinet which goes for about $525. I'm very pleased with it so far. I'm not a pro player but it seems fine so far after a few weeks. Bell/lower tenon joint is a little tight but other than that instrument arrived in excellent condition and seems to be a good quality horn. Anybody else have any experience with this horn compared to the other "C" clarinets out there?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kekuja
Date: 2005-07-07 20:00
my patricola 'c' has been sent to the shop for a well earned tune-up.
i bought the amati as a necessary backup. i cannot get it to play in tune (20 cents flat) unless i use the amati student mouthpiece that comes with it. with that moutpiece it plays in tune. i spoke to the amati USA office and they are sending me another barrel.
once i will have 2 barrel's i will get a woodworking friend to shave a millimeter off of one of them if that is still necessary.
then the horn should be in tune.
the amati is a little stiffer in keywork than the patricola, but i already played it for one show and everything went well. the throat notes are more out of tune than the patricola but that is no surprise considering the difference in price.
k
http://kekuja.com - afro belly dance music - mp3's
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-07-08 07:02
kekuja wrote:
> my patricola 'c' has been sent to the shop for a well earned
> tune-up.
>
> i bought the amati as a necessary backup. i cannot get it to
> play in tune (20 cents flat) unless i use the amati student
> mouthpiece that comes with it. with that moutpiece it plays in
> tune. i spoke to the amati USA office and they are sending me
> another barrel.
>
I also bought an Amati as a back-up to my Patricola and don't care for their mp either. I can still use my B-45 Lyre, though. But what kind of barrel are they sending you? I'm wondering if a different barrel could improve the tone, which I find harsh compared to my Patricola.
>
> the amati is a little stiffer in keywork than the patricola
You can say that again. I practically get bruises trying to play it sometimes.
Steve Epstein
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-10-14 12:30
I play a buffet Prestige RC Clarinet, that has been totally redone by Morrie Backun. It's a great clarinet. I usually use it on old doinas cause I love the sound and you don't have to play it as loud as Bb clarinet. I would never get a C to try to beat the transposition thing. But If I were buying a C tommorow it would be an Buffet C-11. It's a great horn, like all buffets it still needs some tweeking, but post tweeking it plays just as good as an RC and it's under 1K not 4K like my prestige. Later Tom Puwalski
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2005-10-14 14:19
Interesting. Morrie is on a road show, and was at Michigan State University a week ago. I talked about this in a separate post on the main board.
After the Backun mods on the RC: Can you still play loud on it? Has the sound lost any brightness?
Alternatives to the Buffet Prestige are (in no particular order):
Stephen Fox C (get the mods you want up-front)
Allora/Arioso ASC105
Noblet 45C
Buffet E11C
Amati 351C
Patricola CL7C
Woodwind C
If Morrie can adjust one of these (other than the Fox), you will end up spending a lot less money.
Oops. I am a clarinet player and just caught myself being a cheapskate. Typical.
Regards
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-10-15 00:32
Don't mess with any other than the E11 C. The noblet sucks and with never play in tune. The E11 after Morrie lays the Mo-jo on it it plays great and is an amazing instrument. Not just for Klezmer but for opera use. There is no instrument for that price that you're going to find that plays anything like this. Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ginny
Date: 2005-10-17 16:26
I just started playing rhythm (bass and some lame accordion) for a Klezmer start up. They already have two clarinets, so I play the tunes at home on clarinet with my husband (who's a decent accordionist.)
It's all brass and reeds except for me and the music is mostly in Bb or given out in C and Bb.
If there wasn't a tone reason I'd just transpose (write it out using noteworthy or some such, it has an auto transpose feature) or use an A clarinet if in the really sharp keys. I have started practicing sight transposing on Bb and probably need to practice the other way on bass and accordion.
Interesting stuff about the C clarinets though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kekuja
Date: 2006-03-31 00:30
se> But what kind of barrel are they sending you?
se>I'm wondering if a different barrel could improve the tone,
se> which I find harsh compared to my Patricola.
the same barrel what came with it. i sent for one
in order to have it cut shorter.
my woodworking friend was hesitant and did not shave much
off of the barrel, so there is not much pitch difference.
if i ever need to use the amati at a perfromcance,
i'll use their mouthpiece.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kennyj ★2017
Date: 2006-04-04 20:13
I'm with Tom Puwalski on this matter. The mid-line Buffet is a perfect C clarinet.
One question for Tom P., what is your suggested mouthpiece setup for the C?
kenny j
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2006-04-05 21:41
I've been using a ralfph morgan RM o6 C mouthpiece on it, for klezmer use. I've been using the bakun morales "L" on Bb for everything classical and klezmer. It plays too "in tune" on my C. The morgan plays nice high. When I play with "wet" accordions, A442 plus a few musette reeds I need all the help I can get to play at that pitch leval. Morrie made me a Bb barel that's realy short 44mm, but with a special bore that doesn't drive the throat tones to high and that is my normal klez barrel. Later Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pkafur
Date: 2006-05-23 16:42
HI GUYS
IM SO GLAD THATS I HAVE FOUND THIS SITE THEN I CAN FIND OUT WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR FOR YEARS.
I'VE BEEN PLAYING CLARINET FOR 4 YEARS AND JUST RECENTLY MOVED ON (G)CLARINET ALL I WANA FIND OUT WHER CAN I GET HOLD OF SOME BOOKS THATS TELLS ME WHAT TO DO ON G CLARINET SND THE OTHER THINGS WHTS IS THE BEST REEDS TO USE ON G CLARINET.AND WHAT IS THE BEST MAKE ON G CLARINET AND WHERE CAN I GET ONE?IT WOULD BE REALLY GREATFULL IF SOME BODY REPLAY THIS EMAIL TO IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFULL.AGAIN THANKS FOR WHO EVER REPLAY TO ME.
LOTS OF REGARD
PESH
peshrawkafur,ahlamkafur@aol.com.oo447989403449
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jmcgann
Date: 2006-11-05 11:26
Andy Statman occasionally uses a C albert system...
www.johnmcgann.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-12-13 00:26
Not surprising. Andy's teacher was Dave Tarras, who played only on Albert instruments.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Christian Dawid
Date: 2007-01-18 15:25
> Not surprising. Andy's teacher was Dave Tarras, who played
> only on Albert instruments.
Statman owns and plays Tarras' clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saim
Date: 2012-04-05 18:14
Hello everybody, first appologize my english,
I recently got a Selmer C clarinet. This one was bought from a NOS. According to selmer paris office, it was handcraft in 1982 so i figure it's a 10s. There where only few C selmer made and the model is not stamped, there is only selmer paris made in france and the serials.
I had a leblanc spirit before this one. The leblanc was quite fair and play in tune until the hight clairon C. Altissimo register is more hard to play in tune.
The selmer has a better sound, betwin a bb sound and the spirit with a dark low register and nice altissimo register. I really prefer the selmer sound to the spirit's one.
I play both with my morgan rm 15 mouthpiece but...
The selmer is quite out of tune.
The low e and f and f# are too flat. then from the g to the bb, it's quite fair to hight. Then the b is definitly too flat, the c and c# a bit less but still too flats. Then from the clairon d to g it's cool but the clairon's left and is too flat, specialy the c. The altissimo, is incredibly well in tune.
I just got this clarinet and i'm already getting used and correcting with my embouchure but the fact is my selmer 10s is not as well in tune than my student spirit.
The selmer was reppaded recently and the left hands pads generaly seems too fat to me. May this can be a reason to the tone problems ?
I tried with my m30 mouthpiece and a selmer c* but it doesn't change the tones troubles.
Do you have any suggestions to this case? May be a different barrel ?
Thanks for sharing you c clarinet experience !
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2012-04-10 00:51
This sounds like a number of issues.
The pads need to seal and open well If each joint does not hold suction well, this is where you should start. Other problems could occur if the pads are not opening enough.
Flat high notes could be caused by the chamber on your mouthpiece being too big, or too long a barrel. Try putting some putty inside your mouthpiece to reduce the volume and see what this does to the high notes. This is easy to do and removable.
If the 12ths are wide, then your speaker vent may be in the wrong place. An <un-nameed player> moved the speaker vent on his <pro-line> C clarinet down 10mm (!!!) to mostly fix this problem. The middle-C /G 12th should be closest to in-tune.
Do you know when this instrument was made?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saim
Date: 2012-04-10 18:23
Thanks Ralph for those sugestions.
I'm getting used to the clarinet I think if the instrument is not perfectly tuned, i also have my embouchure's habits. I'm mostly playing a Rc bb so i guess i'll need few month to get used of the selmer C.
I tried a more closed mouthpiece (a selmer C**) and the tune is much better. The difference betwin low and high register is now smaler. My morgan rm 15 has a nice sound but is out of tune, as my m30.
This clarinet, i bought it new from an old case factory who worked with selmer and is now closed.
I phone to selmer's office and they told me the clarinet was crafted in 1982. The wood is beautifull and it's nikel plated.
What kind of mouthpiece do you play on a C ? Does generally the chamber have to be colser than the BB's one you double with?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2012-04-10 21:17
I have a Stephen Fox C that was made in 2001 or so.
I use a Vandoren 5RVLyre for non-classical events on C, Bb or A. These events could be Klezmer, contra dances, or sometimes with a rock band. An M30 is used for classical events. I look at both of these pieces as short-term solutions.
Mr. Fox designed the C instrument to use a standard-chambered mouthpiece. I have played and rejected C"s though that behave the way you have described. The main thing is how the instruments were designed, and having played on a number of C instruments, it is hard to say whether a lot of them were actually designed, or were just thrown together.
Last year I ended up playing with someone who has one of Tom Ridenour's C clarinets and it compared depressingly well with mine. Depressing when you compare the prices of the two instruments. Still, I like my Fox better.
My experience playing in our community band on a <cheap> plastic Eb may have developed some flexibility on my part. All the high notes were flat, and I got them in tune by fingering the next higher half-step and lipping them down. This is what <un-nameed player> did on his <pro-line> C, at least before moving the register vent (your results may vary.) People complemented me, little did they know. It was not fun, and I traded the darn thing in with some other less-than-optimal clarinets for a reasonbly nice tenor sax. ("Oh, you need an eefer player? Sorry, I no longer own one.") Developing this flexibility may have helped me in the long run, but when I first played on a Fox C clarinet I had already ruled out just about everything else that was reasonably available at that time. This experience taught me that it is always better to play on a better instrument.
Still, you may warm up to your C. I wouldn't do anything non-reversable yet, until you have decided which things are the instrument's fault, which the mouthpiece's, and which the player's.
Regards
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2012-05-29 02:45
mpce update: The 5RVLyre went into the cigar box last month, and the M30 now gets used for everything, classical or otherwise. I like it better. Also, my aging accordionist friend got a new, lighter instrument that tunes to A=440 (instead of A=443.5). For Balkan and Klezmer music the M30 tunes well and gives me enough flexibility with the standard barrel. This is only a temporary personal solution. Your results may vary.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron F
Date: 2012-06-25 12:17
Many years ago David Hite sent me two mouthpieces to try
for my Leblanc c clarinet. The one that was best ended up being
a mouthpiece for b flat clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2012-07-04 01:38
Some C instruments were designed for special mouthpieces and some for standard mouthpieces. Stephen Fox and Tom Ridenour instruments are setup for standard mouthpieces. I cannot coment on any others.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
