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 Can I Play?
Author: aminor 
Date:   2007-08-23 17:59

Hi, I have just discovered Klezmer and I am now in love. I have finally found the music that speaks to my soul (Middle Eastern). I bought a play-along Klezmer book from the music store by a Klezmer band from New York City and I can play all of the songs in there. Does that mean I can play Klezmer? I have decades of years playing American Band and Orchestral music.

I'm playing on a Bflat, R-13, 5RV, Vandoren3. Please educate me. I don't want to think I'm ready and play out and make a fool of myself. Thank you!

Also, are girls allowed in Klezmer bands? And are Gentiles allowed to play at Jewish weddings?

Toh-da (is that Yiddish for Thank you?)

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: Katrina 
Date:   2007-08-23 21:38

Girls are allowed in Klezmer bands. There's even been one up here in the Twin Cities (MN) which is all-girl (The Tchotchkeles...sp?).

I dunno about the Gentile/Jewish wedding thing...

Have you listened to any other Klezmer recordings? Many ornaments will not be notated in the books and if it's just the accompaniment that your book came with, there may be some stuff you're missing.

I'd recommend the oldies first: Dave Tarras, Naftule Brandwein

And the newer folks next: Andy Statman, the Klezmatics, Klezmer Conservatory Band.

All these CDs should be readily available, except maybe one or 2 by Dave Tarras.

To reiterate: Klezmer is not just about the notes on the page, and was rarely written down to start with. Learning the style is more complex than learning the "melody notes."

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: Steve Epstein 
Date:   2007-08-24 02:29

Yes, Gentiles are allowed to play at Jewish weddings:)

My private clarinet teacher of 40 years ago was Greek-American. He also played violin. This was before the klezmer "revival", but klezmer music was being played at Jewish weddings and bar mitzvahs along with contemporary American stuff. He used to talk about playing the same music at the Greek affairs as the Jewish ones, just the tunes had different names. He also told us he mostly played those tunes on violin because he was better at them on that instrument, and played them more at the Greek affairs than the Jewish ones; again, this was before the klezmer "revival".

The Roma people (gypsies) played it before anyone else; they gave us the traditional tunes and the modes upon which the modern ones are based. If anyone has a "claim" to this music, they do, so don't let anyone tell you you can't play at a Jewish wedding.

Steve Epstein

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: aminor 
Date:   2007-08-24 15:15

how cool about Klezmer starting with the gypsies, that's what my heritage is. No wonder I'm drawn to it.
Thanks all for the info - lots more practicing for me.......

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: Steve Epstein 
Date:   2007-08-24 16:58

aminor wrote:

> how cool about Klezmer starting with the gypsies, that's what
> my heritage is. No wonder I'm drawn to it.
> Thanks all for the info - lots more practicing for me.......

The Fresh Air interview with Eugene Hutz of Gogol Bordello:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12804958

Steve Epstein

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2007-08-25 12:35

In addition to Katrina's recommendations I suggest looking into Helmut Eisel's youtube videos, eg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjkyRpTSDvk. It's a perfect demonstration of how tight Klezmer, Jazz, Blues and improvisation are intertwined. This is when I realised that I'd take me another x years of getting familiar with all the scales and their effects until I could do it. And I don't even have any eastern/jewish blood rushing through my veins (at least as far as my parents would tell me...). Sigh.
Eisel has written a book (in German, roughly translated title) "From Klezmer to improvisation" of which an english excerpt is available on his home page.

Good luck.

--
Ben

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: vintschevski 
Date:   2007-09-24 13:25

Hi!

Just for interest: "toh-da" is Hebrew for "thank you". In Yiddish one way to say "thank you" is "a dank", which can be expanded to "a groysen dank" or "a sheynem dank" ("thank you very much").

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: merlin 
Date:   2008-01-28 08:52

Hi Steve,

can you validate the statement you make that Gypsies played klezmer before the Jews?

I'd be interested to hear the source of your knowledge!

all the best

Merlin

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: Steve Epstein 
Date:   2008-01-29 02:54

merlin wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> can you validate the statement you make that Gypsies played
> klezmer before the Jews?
>
> I'd be interested to hear the source of your knowledge!
>
> all the best
>
> Merlin

It's my understanding that the original source of all this music is India. As I say, it's my understanding; it's what I was told at Balkan Camp back in 1999, I believe. If that's incorrect you can blame them:)

So the gypsies came from India, migrated out through the Middle East and Eastern Europe, taking the music with them.

I'm no expert on ethnomusicology, but I was trying to make the point that the music is not exclusively Jewish.

Steve Epstein

Post Edited (2008-01-29 03:02)

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2008-01-29 08:58

> I'm no expert on ethnomusicology, but I was trying to make the point that
> the music is not exclusively Jewish.

I'd think it's safe to say that no music is exclusively xyz, unless one's dealing with a hitherto undiscovered isolated tribe in inner Elbonia.

Trading peoples not only swapped goods but also traded culture (eg language, music and cuisine). Not to mention the marriage tourism...

--
Ben

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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: sandeejs 
Date:   2009-01-10 22:11

Steve, thanks for posting that youtube info. That is an awesome piece!
~Sandee~



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 Re: Can I Play?
Author: powdermilk 
Date:   2010-04-20 21:57

(I know - it's an old thread, but...)
It's pretty common for members of various ethnic groups to claim origin of tunes and musical styles, as well as other traditions and inventions even when they didn't (Americans do it, too), so be careful about repeating this kind of thing. They may sincerely believe what they're saying - and it could even be true - but one should not take such claims on faith, and certainly one should not repeat it as if it were well-established fact without doing a little investigation.

I know for sure some klezmer tunes originated in Jewish liturgical music (because I hear the tunes on Saturdays and holidays). I doubt that Jewish liturgical tunes would have been introduced to European Jews by Roma, but I guess it's possible. There are klezmer modes which are called by names of particular Jewish prayers, like "ahava raba," "misheberach," "adonoi molokh."

These modes themselves are not Western modes (not even "altered" ones as some claim), but derive from the maqam of Turkish and Middle Eastern music; for example, "ahava raba" is exactly hijaz (or hicaz in Turkish, same pronunciation). Someone on another website claims the "Biblical origin" of the ahava raba mode is "unquestionable," without even giving a source, but IMO calling something "unquestionable" is absurd anyway. :)

To my ear and based on my (admittedly small) knowledge of Indian music, klezmer is not very much like it at all; to me, klezmer has far more in common with Middle Eastern music than North Indian music, even Muslim light classical stuff. I would also venture to guess that what we recognize as "klezmer" does not have any recognizable existence before the 19th, maybe 18th century.

Since klezmer and most folk music in general has traditionally been transmitted orally, there is no real way of telling origins except by analyzing the tunes, and even then there is a lot of speculation involved.

Some of the Roma population in Eastern Europe ended up there after leaving Turkey, and there is also speculation about some of this music being a result of Jewish immigation to Eastern Europe from Turkey. From what I can tell, there isn't a good way to distinguish who brought these tunes into klezmer first. I suspect it's probably a combination of sources. It also would be foolish to assume that transmission of tunes and styles were one way.

References:
http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/hijaz.html
http://www.manchesterklezmer.org/pages_history_musicology/what_is_klezmer_scales.html

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