 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: belle
Date: 2023-02-04 19:17
Hi, I've seen some thumb rests advertised as being suitable for both clarinet and oboe. Mostly labelled like this on sites I wouldn't trust when it comes to things like this.
Wouldn't the oboe have a tighter radius? Or do you think that the surface area that the attachment piece covers is small enough that differences in the curvature is negligible?
The most reputable thumb rest advertised as being for either instrument is the Ton Kooiman Etude (but not other models - which doesn't make sense to me).
Cheers.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-05 04:50
Oboe specific thumbrests will have a much tighter radius to the underside of the baseplate compared to clarinet ones because of the narrower diameter lower joints, so they won't always fit if you can't reshape the baseplate.
Clarinet thumbrests can always have the baseplate tweaked to make it a much tighter radius so it fits tight against the surface of an oboe or cor lower joint - either by gently squeezing the sides in (using a vice with soft jaws) or a combination of squeezing and then filing to achieve a good fit with no gaps at the sides or down the centre.
That's doable with most sheet metal ones, but not always easy on zinc alloy castings or plastic ones which will have to be reshaped by filing to fit the tighter radius as bending them will most likely cause them to crack.
Never expect the screw holes to line up and be prepared to fill in old ones and drilling new ones.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: belle
Date: 2023-02-05 11:56
Thanks, I figured as much, just confusing how the Ton Kooiman Etude says on the packet that it fits every oboe and clarinet. I have one, but no clarinet to compare to.
HOW ABOUT THIS... anyone ever seen JUST a neck strap ring that will fit an oboe? Maybe even a clarinet one? Or an adjustable thumbrest with the ring?
Background... my RSI is so bad that I can't even hold the oboe. I have the Kooiman Oboe thumbrest, not yet attached since I got it just as I was getting really bad. But that won't even be enough when I start back again. So I found the ERG-Oboe, which can take the whole weight of the instrument. I already tried the W.R.I.S.T, but the weight distribution on that is weird. Your left hand ends up holding the instrument, so my octave key thumb motion suffers.
Anyway, the ERG-Oboe needs a neck strap ring to attach to. In an ideal world, I would love to start with the ERG-oboe, then transition to the Kooiman Oboe, especially when I'm just teaching and might only play little sections now and then. The Kooiman will be quicker and less cumbersome to stop and start often. If I practise by myself, I would probably want to stick to the ERG so that my problems don't reoccur.
Can anyone think of a way I could get the best of both worlds? The next idea would be to have 2 instruments! I'm not THAT serious of a player though.
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2023-02-05 21:01
I use The Hook oboe which I bought at Ebay. It is perfect for me.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-02-05 23:42
Same here the Hook takes ALL the weight off the thumb. Fantastic invention. The only "drawback" is if you can't play without "weaving all over the place," you will have to change that habit.
I have two, one at oboe height and one at Cor height. Without it i wouldn't even be able to play Cor because I don't have big enough hands. With it, no problems.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-06 00:53
I'd recommend the RDG BHOB over the hook as it doesn't go in the bell and will allow you to move to some degree whilst playing. I use one on cor and chances are I'll be needing to use it on oboe as well as I've done my right shoulder in.
https://howarthlondon.com/pic.aspx?vid=255890
Slings/neck straps do nothing to relieve the weight of the instrument and also don't do your posture any favours as you still need to hold the instrument up with your right arm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-02-06 21:45
I also have a BHOB and like the Hook much better. Obviously different people are going to like different things. The BHOB does not give me the freedom that the Hook does. The BHOB is more portable, and the Hook is more stable. It does not interfere with or change the sound.
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Author: belle
Date: 2023-02-07 06:21
Thanks for all your comments and the links. The Hook looks like a stiff version of the W.R.I.S.T I mentioned I already have, so I imagine a very similar outcome. It has the addition of springs for a bit more mobility: https://hodgeproductsinc.com/w-r-i-s-t-weight-reduction-instrumental-system-technology/
The problem I experienced with this is that since the weight is held at the bottom of the instrument, the left hand ends up having to push the instrument away from the body with the left thumb. This means my thumb is less dexterous with octave key maneuvering. Anybody with The Hook feel the same? Any remedies for this?
I feel the effect is stronger if you hold the instrument at a higher "european" style angle, rather than more vertical, like a clarinet.
The BHOB seems like a stiffer version of the thing I'm looking at getting, which is the ERG-Oboe: https://www.ergobrass.com/oboe/
Both the BHOB and ERG-Oboe require a neck strap ring on the instrument. Hence my search. I'm not interested in using a neck strap itself: I've been down that path and they are useless for oboe, particularly when holding the instrument at a higher angle.
I can only find ring adapters that you would connect to an existing thumb rest, and only a particular model thumb rest at that. Most commonly I can find the Buffet version. Nobody seems to make just a ring, like what you can find for bass clarinet: https://votawtool.com/collections/clarinet-2/products/bass-clarinet-strap-ring-wide?variant=34494131241095
Failing that, my original question about the interchangeability with a clarinet thumb rest was if I just give up on my Ton Kooiman Oboe thumb rest and use a regular adjustable with ring in conjunction with the ERG-oboe/BHOB. Clarinet ones are much more readily available and cheaper!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-07 22:00
If your existing thumbrest doesn't have a sling ring, you could always have someone fabricate one and (hard/silver) solder it on. I just did this myself so I can use a FHRED with my oboe so it's less of a strain on my right shoulder - fortunately I had an unused Howarth thumbrest casting that was unplated and soldered a brass ring to it, so I didn't need to fill or drill any new holes in the lower joint as the screw holes are in the same locations.
On a silver plated thumbrest, the plating will be damaged by the heat of having the sling ring soldered on as it needs to be heated to red hot for the silver solder to flow - it can be cleaned up and replated, or just tidied up if the finish isn't much of a concern to you. If you're using a thumbrest cushion, then that's pretty much all hidden if you're worried about the cosmetics if you don't have the thumbrest prepped and replated.
Another option is to have a sheet metal plate of around 0.5mm to 1mm thick fabricated with a sling ring soldered to it which is made to fit between the joint surface and the underside of the thumbrest, then held in place once the thumbrest is screwed back on, provided the thumbrest screws are long enough to secure everything without the risk of being ripped out from the joint if they don't screw in deep enough. That won't mean having to modify anything and it can be removed easily enough should you need to.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-02-07 22:18
Since the Hook is a definite distance from the stand, I don't have to hold the oboe in any way with either hand other than to keep it from rotating left or right. The restriction, as I said before, is if you are a "weaving player" you will have to adjust. I come from horn playing, and especially if we play "on the leg," we do not weave; if you look at videos of orchestral horn sections, they don't move but my the music they produce! I also come from a violin background and actually walked around while playing. So you can adjust if you want to, if it makes it possible to play when otherwise you would have trouble.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2023-02-07 22:25
Another comment --- I tried all kinds of neck straps and slings and the BHOB and whatever, and with all of them, I ended up having to support some of the weight of the oboe via the thumb rest and the left thumb, which was difficult for me, and I could never get a strap to be the "right length to work." I just remember the BHOB was not as good as the Hook; the Hook actually is the same principle we used when constructing something to rest on the floor for playing the Cor, because my hands are too small to play it otherwise. So I was delighted to find the Hook which was elegant compared to the construction we put together ourselves to achieve the same end.
With the Hook, I can make subtle position changes with my body as needed while the bell is resting securely on the Hook.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-02-08 01:33
One thing that's very much overlooked is how the right arm is supported - it's often never supported at all as most chairs don't have arm rests and that will make a ton of difference once the right elbow or forearm has some support as well as the instrument being supported.
I originally bought the FHRED for an elderly clarinettist recovering from a fractured right shoulder and who also had trouble with their elbow and wrist - the FHRED did wonders to support her clarinet but her right arm still wasn't comfortable.
I got her to sit in a chair with armrests and also built up the right armrest with whatever I could find in the bandroom (cardboard boxes, gaffer tape and foam) just to raise her elbow up to a better and more comfortable angle as well as fully supporting it to keep the weight off her shoulder. That did the trick and gave her several years more of playing which she thought she wouldn't get as she was that close to packing up.
While it will do nothing for mobility if you like to move around loads whilst playing, it will at least fully support and relieve the weight off your right arm and that isn't a bad thing. If you only have access to regular chairs without armrests and there's enough room, then see if using another chair placed with its back directly against your right side will act as an armrest if it's of the right height. Or improvise if that's not possible - borrow a tenor sax case or something of a similar height to use as an armrest and if it's too low, place your oboe case on top or a folded towel.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2023-02-08 12:31
My Sound Alchemy oboe have an adjustable thumbrest with a ring, so Yanko Petrov might know.
https://www.facebook.com/yankosworkshop/
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Author: belle
Date: 2023-02-10 15:59
Awesome, thanks for all the different ideas and troubleshooting. Clearly it's not a very ergonomic activity in general as we all have first or secondhand experience of issues holding the darn thing!
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