 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: PaulNorway
Date: 2017-06-23 12:13
BUffet recently (this week) released a new oboe: Virtuose. I had the opportunity to test a prototype in april (2017). It's body is separated in two parts. A long upper part that goes down to the D-key, and a bell.
At the moment of testing I was between 2 oboes, my old Dupin and my new Mönnig and these two are really different beasts when it comes to reeds so my reeds were just all over the place when it came to flexibility, hardness and length. THe weather at the time was also "typical Norwegain spring", meaning SO not stable... This have colored my experince with it regarding tone so I will not say anything about that.
What I can say is that the ergonomics of the key were good, at least for my hands, wrists and arms and the scale was even aaaaall the way up to the upper register. It's always fun when instrument makers try new things.
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments/oboes/virtuose/
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Author: oboeyogi
Date: 2017-06-23 13:09
Is looks good.
I have to ask what the mean by "natural medium C key (patent pending)" is it something to do with the little key above the RH 1. Which I think is to open up the C or B flat pads on a conservatory oboe.
And how does the G# pad close as it does not have a link to the RH 1 key.
Eg trill F# to G#.
Thanks Nicholas
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Author: PaulNorway
Date: 2017-06-26 11:39
Good question, for better answer than mine you should probably contact Buffet:).
I have no idea about that patent pending C key, but it is the small key over the right hand index finger. Reagrding the G-sharp key, the mechanics for this/link is on the sides where link between the upper and lower body usually is.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-06-26 12:26
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments/oboes/virtuose/
The "natural medium C key" isn't a new idea - it's like the conservatoire 1-2-3 mechanism fitted to German spec oboes, but has a small touchpiece fitted to it instead of being linked to the F# key and it opens the top joint Bb and C keys.
So using that touchpiece will give C with the same venting as on thumbplate system oboes which has a mellower tone compared to the conservatoire fingering for C (xoo|xoo).
It's not an entirely new idea as both Howarth and Heckel have fitted it to their instruments in the past.
The linkage for the F#-G# trill has also been fitted to oboes too - Bulgheroni use the same kind of linkage instead of the arm as have older German and Chinese copies of older German oboes.
It will be interesting to see if that linkage is fully compatible if these oboes are converted to dual system (adding a thumbplate) as the G# key will be held closed if the thumb is off the thumbplate.
I just realised the bell flare can be changed - the join is just below the low Bb vent. I only just noticed that as I couldn't understand if the entire lower section from below RH3 was one piece including the bell, that would mean an entire lower joint. Now I can see the join between the bell flare and the rest of the lower (or foot) joint as it wasn't that clear before until I tilted my screen. They offer another 3D printed bell flare for a different sound.
The joint proportions are like those of the Boehm system oboes, so all the main action is on the main joint (like a flute) and the keywork from Eb downwards is effectively a footjoint.
I hope with such a long main body section they've sleeved the bore at the top end. I understand (according to the text) they have tonehole inserts to help, but wonder if the top end of the bore is sleeved as well.
Now - wouldn't be nice if they offer Boehm/sax fingered oboes again!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-07-24 10:47
The Buffet "Virtuoso" oboe is well worth a try in comparison to other
"high end" makes of oboe. Plays very well indeed.
I was somewhat disappointed that an instrument with such a sophisticated mechanism does not have a left hand C# key. If you have the intention of making a "Buck Rogers" model oboe, then why not include a left hand C# key as standard?
As Chris P says, the idea of a "natural C" key is not at all a "new" idea.
Since the "natural C" key has been around a long time, I can not fathom how this key could be eligible for patent...
I will comment that, in my estimation, on the "Virtuoso" model oboe, the "natural C" key touch is far too small and ill located to be of much use.
Beginning with the model 36k Heckelphones made in the 1930s up to present,
Heckelphones have had a "natural C" key in the form of a "split plate" on the right index finger. The top of plate is the "natural C," and the bottom plate is the usual F# that engages both the top and bottom plates.
Also, I have seen this same "Natural C"- F# touch "split plate" arrangement on a couple of pre-war English horns, one I seem to recall was a German make, and one was possibly a Loree...
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-24 17:29
As the feather keys have been divided and connected with magnets, fitting a C# of any type could be a challenge due to where the split is for the lower joint (between the E and Eb toneholes).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2017-07-25 11:22
I am not sure what advantage may have been achieved by splitting the oboe just below the D key touch...
Oboes.us
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-25 16:00
It's like the Boehm system oboes which were split like flutes, so all the main action is on the one long joint and the footjoint has the lower keywork.
I noticed they have a removable bell flare so you can get an optional 3D printed plastic bell to go on there. Looks like its made from glow-in-the-dark plastic!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2017-07-26 04:08
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the toneholes on a traditionally divided instrument are displaced from their "natural" positions by the need for a tenon between the G and G# toneholes. Could one get more reliable intonation by allowing the toneholes to be in more natural positions?
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-26 14:49
The problem with all modern oboes is space is at a premium and siting the A tonehole (LH3) and the G# key pillars so they fit between the G# and A toneholes, so compromises are made.
On an instrument with no middle tenon and socket (such as the Marigaux M2 and the Buffet Virtuose), tonehole and pillar positions can be moved around as there's no middle tenon or socket in the way as well as repositioning the G (RH1) tonehole.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2017-07-26 21:19
Yet there are a lot of oboes out there with a good scale, so it seems those problems are often well addressed, if with difficulty. I personally would want one heck of a solid hard case to carry around something that long, thin, and fragile. I feel much safer with my three piece oboe in its case. I guess you'd get used to it.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2017-10-01 22:37
"I personally would want one heck of a solid hard case to carry around something that long, thin, and fragile. I feel much safer with my three piece oboe in its case. I guess you'd get used to it."
Kind of like carrying around a violin bow. You are just damn careful, and if smart, put it in an empty violin case.
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2017-10-29 19:48
Can someone point me to pictures of thumbplate system? I have always played conservatory and can't even imagine what "thumplate" looks like. Sounds like a big piece of metal on the back for the left thumb, but what it would be used for is beyond me.
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Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-10-30 01:15
You might find this useful - There is a large amount of information online i9f you search google......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lesa94m_-bw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-10-30 21:27
Attachment: ctouchpiece.jpg (121k)
http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pid=35115
The thumbplate is there to give different/alternative fingerings for Bb and C when fitted to an otherwise conservatoire system oboe (making it dual system).
Instead of the usual (conservatoire) fingerings for Bb and C where you hold down RH1, you release the thumbplate instead for these notes.
Conservatoire system fingerings:
Bb - xxo|xoo
C - xoo|xoo
Thumbplate/dual system fingerings:
Bb - xxo|ooo with thumb off thumbplate
C - xoo|ooo with thumb off thumbplate
When the thumb is held down on the thumbplate, conservatoire system fingerings can be used. This only applies to dual system instruments.
Something you can do on dual system instruments that isn't as easy on conservatoire system (or pure thumbplate system) instruments are the following tremolos:
G-Bb - xx+|ooo
G-C - x++|ooo
- both are done with the thumb off the thumbplate and trilling with the fingers marked +.
As far as tone quality goes, Bb when played with the conservatoire system fingering has a much fuller tone quality compared to the thumbplate system fingering. On the other hand, C played with the thumbplate fingering has a much fuller and less nasal tone quality compared to the conservatoire system fingering.
In the last few years there have been players having an additional touchpiece for the left thumb fitted to their otherwise full conservatoire system instruments so by holding that touchpiece down, they can get the thumbplate venting of the note C without resorting to having their instruments converted to dual system. The principal oboist of the LSO is one of such players who have this extra touchpiece fitted to their instruments (see attachment).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboeyogi
Date: 2017-11-04 01:10
Hi Chris
The principal oboist for the Brisbane SO has a M2 that has what he called a reverse thumb plate key. That looks like extending the F# to c b flat arm to a touch piece near the left thumb.
He also came from England.
Nicholas
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Author: oboeyogi
Date: 2017-11-07 12:53
Hi Chris
Yes it look like it would work the same but but not as elegant. It was brass bar silver soldered to the F# to c b flat arm, not plated at all looked ugly but works fine.
This version of a reverse thump plate at about 1:14 look the best so far that I have seen. And looks the simplest to make just have to take the touch pad from a scrape instrument.
https://www.facebook.com/afoes.es/videos/1466277686725882/
I like the Idea as i do a lot of band playing and hate going from g to b flat. One day I may make the new arm with the touch pad but that could after I make the perfect reed.
Thanks
Chris
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Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2018-02-11 22:45
Thanks Chris I get it now. Not that big a deal...but have never seen one in the amateur world I have played in.
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