 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: weston
Date: 2010-08-02 23:14
Hello all,I was wondering if anyone might enlighten me with a serial number for an F.Loree paris Oboe please?
The serial number is DD57
I can only describe it as 'English thumbplate conservatoire system' though the octave keys are only 'simple octave keys'
Any advice appreciated!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-02 23:25
That's from the early '70s going by this serial number list: http://www.musictrader.com/loree.html
When you mean English thumbplate conservatoire system' - is it dual system in that Bb and C can be played by both lifting off the thumbplate or by closing RH1?
Some Lorees were built as purely thumbplate system (not dual system) where there was no linkage from RH1 to the top joint Bb and C keys, but had most gadgets found on full Gillet conservatoire systems (banana key, split D#-E trill, Ab-Bb trill, G#-A trill, etc),
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: weston
Date: 2010-08-02 23:33
Hi Chris,
I have only just aquired this Oboe and am actually asking on behalf of a close friend whom does not have internet access,I shall take a photograph and upload it if this is possible and maybe you could possibly put me right with this.My friend purchased it to learn on but is much older than he expected and is rather lost with the system.
Regards,Chris
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Author: weston
Date: 2010-08-02 23:42
Attachment: 2004_01010650.JPG (66k)
Attachment: 2004_01010651.JPG (62k)
Attachment: 2004_01010652.JPG (72k)
Attachment: 2004_01010653.JPG (63k)
Attachment: 2004_01010655.JPG (57k)
Hi Chris,
I have only just aquired this Oboe and am actually asking on behalf of a close friend whom does not have internet access,I have taken photo's just now and maybe you could possibly put me right with this.My friend purchased it to learn on but is much older than he expected and is rather lost with the system.
Regards,Chris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-03 00:03
That's the same specification oboe Leon Goossens played - thumbplate system with simple 8ve keys - plus LH F and C# keys for the LH little finger.
I'm wondering about the serial number - is it really DD or could it be D057 or O057 or D57 (with an overstamped D) as Leon Goossens' one was from 1907. Several keywork features on this aren't found on '70s Lorees (eg. the lack of the bell vent and the double adjusting screws on the Eb pad cup and the 8ve keys are a bit OTT), and the crown isn't like that of a '70s Loree which is pretty much as is seen on modern Lorees. I've worked on a few DQ-DZ Lorees (full Gillet conservatoire) and they're far more modern looking generally having more rationalised keywork on them (less key pieces and fewer solder joints).
Could you post close-up photos of the serial numbers?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-08-03 12:45)
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2010-08-03 03:00
First set of Loree serial numbers: A1-Z99 1881-1910
Second set of Loree serial numbers ("double letter"):
AA1-AA99, then onto BB1-BB99 and so on to ZZ99
1910-1929
Third set of Loree serial numbers: AA1-AZ99, then BA1 (BA01)- BZ99, and so on... 1929 to present
So, two Loree oboes exist with a "DD" at the beginning of the
serial number stamp, though the later (modern) DD oboe
will most likely have TWO numbers after the DD, such as: DD05.
The keywork patterns of the oboes from the 1910s and the modern series -
distinctly different.
The oboe in the photographs is a THUMBPLATE system only.
C and Bb can be actuated only by the thumbplate OR the single right hand side key. No connection exists between the lower joint and the upper joint, no connection from the F# key to the riser vents for C (B#) and Bb (A#).
A complete pain to try to play in my experience.
However, this antique DD5 oboe has a left F AND a long left C#- this keywork (in my estimation) should be standard keywork on all high end oboes.
For all the effort the goes into making the "banana key," I surmise that
a long C# could be made instead for just a tiny bit more effort.
I have recently heard of an audition for an oboe position at a major symphony orchestra where the pieceto be played for the sight reading test was impossible to play without the benefit of a left C# key...
With best wishes,
Peter oboes.us
Oboes.us
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-08-03 06:06
Quote:
I have recently heard of an audition for an oboe position at a major symphony orchestra where the pieceto be played for the sight reading test was impossible to play without the benefit of a left C# key...
very interesting, Peter! Tell me, were they auditioning the players, or the instruments? 
I have yet to find an instrument with a banana key that I can use safely - the one on my Loree is useless (it sits far too low, so it is impossible for me to seal the E tone-hole chimney and press the banana key at the same time.)
J.
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2010-08-03 07:50
The "banana key" seems to persist only by strength of tradition.
It was a bad idea on a plateau instrument, and even an even worse idea on a ring system oboe. Ergonomically it is a nightmare as to use it your hands will necessarily be pulled out of position.
I find the that the left C# key is a huge help. Play D, press the left C# key, and voila!- you have C#. And of course you can trill from C-C# with consummate ease. Tom Hinker uses the left C# key for fast chromatic passages as well.
Once you play an instrument with a left C#,
you likely would never wish to put up with an oboe without this key.
Most of the oboists who purchase a Hiniker oboe request the left C#key.
Loree, Howarth, Rigoutat, Marigaux have the left C# as an option.
Retrofitting a left C#key to an existing oboe without it is major and expensive surgery, and very few repairmen have the skill or inclination to take on this task.
With very best wishes,
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: weston
Date: 2010-08-03 09:05
Attachment: 2004_01010658.JPG (34k)
Attachment: 2004_01010659.JPG (45k)
Hi,Yes I have just added pictures of the serial numbers,in three places it is definitely DD57.
The Oboe measures 23" of 58.5cm in length and so would this be a high pitched instrument?
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Author: weston
Date: 2010-08-03 09:12
Dear Peter,
Please excuse my lack of knowledge of the Oboe,I have asked for a friend whom believed it to be a conservatoire!
So this is not,and is just a Thumbplate model as you suggest? I have just added pictures of the serial numbers and the length which may help further to date it,I must admit is Has to be Very old-Antique,it has the original reeds,screwdriver in their cases and turned hardwood caps throughout.
Many Many thanks to all for your assistance.
Regards,Chris
Post Edited (2010-08-03 09:13)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-03 09:43
"Second set of Loree serial numbers ("double letter"):
AA1-AA99, then onto BB1-BB99 and so on to ZZ99
1910-1929"
It's got to be of this vintage going by appearance (possibly built just after WW1) - definitely not from the early '70s.
Any fingering chart for thumbplate system oboes will apply, although this one does have the added luxury of the LH F and long C# plus the Ab/Bb trill on the top joint (the upper side key).
If you get a copy of Leon Goossens' book 'The Oboe', there are several photos of this exact type of oboe in there http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oboe-Yehudi-Menuhin-Music-Guides/dp/1871082439/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280873985&sr=1-1 His Loree was from 1907 and he played it throughout his career.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-08-03 22:20)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-03 12:42
Just noticed this oboe's got the pad retainer washers in the large pad cups as on flutes http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/download.html?10,127/2004_01010658.JPG. Louis (Chelsea) oboes which were copies of Loree oboes had these pad washers too, as did early Howarths.
They're often removed (by unsoldering the screw mounted in the pad cup) so modern pads can be used, though I've only removed them on instruments that have been replated and the screw thread has become too large, but have tried to keep them on instruments that still have them as they're a nice touch.
This idea of pad washers/rsonators on instruments other than flutes and saxes came back into fashion when Buffet introduced their Elite clarinet in the late '80s and Leblanc also used them on their Opus clarinets when they were launched in the mid '90s. Now the Yamaha CSG has pads with plastic buttons in the centre, so what goes around comes around.
I just checked the length of my Howarth S5 which is 60cm or 23 5/8" - this Loree probably has a short bell (6-10mm shorter than a 'normal' bell) to bring the low Bb up to pitch (from 438Hz to 440Hz) but they found it made the E wild, so they went back to using the long 438Hz bell and had a closed bell vent mounted on the bell key that opened when playing low Bb to bring it up to pitch.
Your Loree is 58.5cm or 23" in length (against 60cm or 23 5/8"), though it could also have a shorter reed socket at the top end - the bore length is from the base of the reed socket (not the entrance) to the end of the bell so I would say this is built to 440Hz as opposed to 452Hz which will be a considerably shorter instrument. The length of the reed socket isn't important - it's the depth into which it's set into the top joint which is important as that determines the actual bore length.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-08-03 22:17)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-15 11:09
Just read in Antony Baines' book in the section describing thumbplate system oboes, he mentions this exact model as the Reynolds model (Goossens was taught by Reynolds at an early point in his career) which is thumbplate system plus LHF, long C# and side Ab/Bb trill with the unusual design 2nd 8ve key.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: weston
Date: 2010-08-15 12:03
Chris,Many Many thanks for your help,It is very much appreciated,I have actually placed the oboe on ebay as another has been purchased in replacement.
Hope you do not mind but I shall add this valuable information to the listing.
Once again,Many Many Thanks.
Chris
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2020-01-08 06:46
Has anyone seen a Loree with a serial number only of numbers?
For example: 0333 or maybe O333
Thanks
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Author: mjfoboe
Date: 2020-01-08 06:52
Never mind the person misread the serial number.......!
Mark
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