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 Shaper Tips
Author: RobinDesHautbois 
Date:   2010-06-18 10:20

I have fallen in love with the Kunibert Michel 735 after having tried oodles of cane shaped on different tips. Unfortunately, it is devilishly hard to find for purchase. I now use RDG -1 and 2. Happy enough with them, but I prefer the sound and behaviour of the K.M.

Laubin rants and raves about Nagamatsu.... can anyone comment. Does anyone know if Chiarugi or Rieger is comparable to RDG. Can anyone comment on the shapaer at Webber reeds (http://webreeds.com/wrstore/)?

For oboe d'amore, does anyone use the Thomas Stacy shaper?

Thanks.

Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: hautbois francais 
Date:   2010-06-18 10:40
Attachment:  DSCF2029.JPG (19k)

I have a Nagamatsu #1 shaper tip. Had it for about 15 years+ and have been thru a few thousand pieces of cane. It is a pretty solid device, cuts are consistent even after all this time. Then it cost about USD100....now, maybe a lot more. I got mileage out of the Nagamatsu. The other crappy shapers didnt last very long. I was looking for consistency in my shaped cane and the Nagamatsu worked well for me.

Since you are an engineer, you'd love the precision mechanical engineering that went to fabricate the device

Here it is a pix.

Here is also a link:
http://www.learningmusician.com/profile/blog/252/Reed_Talk_%2313_%96_Nagamatsu_Shaper_Tips

Quote from site: "The Nagamatsu shaper tips are beautiful and beautifully designed. My favorite feature is how the “ears” are constructed. They are sloped for the maximum efficiency in how the razor blade slide off the tip. Shaping is still more of an art than science, but these shaper tips make my life much easier. Another favorite feature of mine is how the top of the tip is tapered down, so that there is minimum pressure at the top of shaper tip to open up the cane."

And yes, what he says is exactly true about being sloped for max efficiency, cutting the cane off from the sides is easy and relatively trouble free, and hence consistent every time.



Post Edited (2010-06-18 12:14)

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: HautboisJJ 
Date:   2010-06-18 17:42

Robin, do you use your RDG -1 shape with the big type Glotin staples? If so what length do you tie them at?

Regards,
Howard

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: johnt 
Date:   2010-06-18 18:01

The Weber 1B shaper is terrific. I tie at 75 mm. on Stevens #2 brass Pro with raised spirals ("French")

Best,

john

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: RobinDesHautbois 
Date:   2010-06-18 18:05

Excellent question.
I say it's excellent because with the same shaper, I've had to tie at different lengths just to get different canes to close!

When I was a student, I used to "eye-ball it" so that the cane would close 1-2 twists of thread before the thread reached the end of the staple. Now, with RDG -1, I tie at 75mm or 73.5mm to get a darker sound.

I haven't used glotin staples in a long time - I never had great reeds with them, not sure why. I now prefer Chiarugi #3 and Pisonis that I cut to get the wider opening.

So the best answer to your question is: experiment! Ironically, I've found that if the cane closes just as the thread reaches the staple end, it will open more than if it closes before... must have something to do with pivot-points.

The most important thing is that you should NEVER tie past the staple end. That really chokes the reeds. I'm sure American and European style reed makers agree on that.

Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: cjwright 
Date:   2010-06-18 19:52

The Nagamatsu shaper tip was designed by Nagamatsu when Associate Principal oboist of the Boston Symphony, Keisuke Wakao, took a Robinson Barr shaper tip to Japan and made some minor changes to it. When I was taking some lessons with Robinson back in the late 90s, he was using the Nagamatsu -1. Last I heard (2 or 3 years ago), he has since gone back to his Robinson Barr shaper tip.

I personally use the Weber 1-C shaper tip. I also own the 1-B, and they are somewhat close to Gilbert -1 and Gilbert -1N. The difference is the curve of course: The Weber has more of a gradual curve going all the way up while the Gilbert -1 and -1N curve out and then begin to go straight up, to which the sides become more parallel rather than a constant flare.

I also tie the Weber 1-C at around 75mm with a 47mm Stevens thinwall #2 staple. I measure everything with a digital micrometer, and more often than not the staples are slightly under (.1 mm) so I adjust accordingly. Tapering the ends of the piece of cane also helps to close the sides to this length. I find that 75mm is the absolute longest I can tie it at, and I have to get the overlap exactly perfect or else it will leak ever so slightly, so if I'm tying a bunch for mass production, I'll tie at 74.75, which I find the extra .15 of a mm doesn't really change much.

The length of the tie can also depend on the thickness of the sides. If the sides are thicker, they're less flexible and bendable, so that the piece of cane doesn't always want to seal, so you might have to tie longer. Conversely, if the sides are thinner you can usually tie a hair longer.

Cooper

Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: RobinDesHautbois 
Date:   2010-06-18 20:06

Where do you and "Johnt" get your "exotic" staples?

In mainstream (Google accessible) stores in USA or Canada, I only ever see Glotin, Pisoni and sometimes Loree.

Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: cjwright 
Date:   2010-06-18 20:42

Exotic staples? I think Stevens have become some of the best selling staples in the states. I know Richard Woodhams and my professor Martin Schuring uses them, and John Mack was using them before he passed away.

They are available through the following retailers:
RDG Woodwinds
Weber Reeds
Midwest Musical
Forrests

And there's probably a bunch more...

You can also order them from Stevens directly, but they don't have a website and don't take credit card. You have to send checks in.

Stevens Double Reeds
P.O. Box 2225
4676 N. Stone Road
Bethel Island, Ca. 94511
Tel: 925-684-9821
Fax: 925-684-9516


Cooper

Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: johnt 
Date:   2010-06-19 02:06

Eliminate the middlemen & save $$$ I buy in lots of 100 direct from the source.

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: hautbois francais 
Date:   2010-06-19 03:07

Like everyone else, I go to Midwest Musical, Forrests to buy supplies. For the first time, I went to the source, in Paris, for cane, staples and other supplies. Now that Eur/USD has tipped in favor of the greenback, so prices are more favorable.

But, I am trying their cane for the first time too. The owner speaks and writes only French, and little or essentially no English, recommended everything "moyen" meaning medium for their cane, and I did say, I wanted the American gouge. I havent received the shipment of cane yet, so I hope I get what I want.

The only worry, is the medium has a thicker gouge than what I am used to for the American gouge.

Yes, i saved abt 40-50% buying from the source, but dealing with them was a real challenge. Sometimes, u make long distance calls, they dont pick up and leave the answering on for hours during work hours. Goes on vacation when they feel like it. Email doesnt get responded to for questions. Just to buy some cane, took me about 2 weeks to get just the info for what I want. If you dont "parlez" at least some basic french, you'd probably give up pretty damn quick and not hassle with the ordeal of overseas transactions. And there is a no refund policy, even if u got bad cane.



Post Edited (2010-06-19 03:19)

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: RobinDesHautbois 
Date:   2010-06-19 18:28

Ooooo, thanks for this one!

Do you know if they come in bigger openings? Loree staples always gave me good reeds (compared to Glotin), but I'd always get dizzy spells with them. Ironic as I always used exclusively Loree mandrels.

Chiarugi is just harder to find. Modified Pisoni is for me a happy medium.

Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca

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 Re: Shaper Tips
Author: cjwright 
Date:   2010-06-19 18:50

David and Julie Stevens say they based bore #2 off of the old Loree staples.

Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra

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