 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2019-07-12 05:43
What mouthpiece would you use for Clinton System? Same as used for Albert System, I assume. Where the heck do you get a mpc for Albert System? Well, I know *where*, but how would you know it's for Albert System?
Can a standard mouthpiece be sanded (or adjusted) for Albert/Clinton System.
I have a hard rubber Clinton System Boosey & Co. clarinet.
Thanks.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-07-12 10:33
They're French/Belgian bore, so any non-German mouthpiece will do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2019-07-12 14:07
The main issue here is probably the tenon size. Boosey instruments around 1920 had a tenon diameter about 1mm smaller that the modern standard, so it's impossible to get a modern mouthpiece to go in - even if you took all the cork off. Bill: you should quickly be able to establish whether a modern mouthpiece can be made to fit. If the barrel has a metal tube lining, which was a common feature of that period, I would expect this to be a sign that the smaller tenon is needed. Also, I thought it was the case that Boosey instrument of that vintage were larger bore, and that this provided the ancestry of the 1010.
So assuming we are talking about the smaller tenon, there are two options: keep an eye out for period mouthpieces on eBay. It's not to hard to spot the small tenon just in pictures, and you can always ask for measurements. Or most technicians will be able to put the modern mouthpiece of your choice on a lathe and reduce the tenon to fit. Only once you've done this will you find if it plays in tune. Taking a bore measurement might help predict this, but there was probably a different shaped chamber in use in those days
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Author: Bill
Date: 2019-07-12 19:17
Chris -- wow, really? OK. I do have B&H mpcs, including one from the 1940s that Ramon Wodkowski calls their "middle period."
I'll have to experiment! Thanks.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Bill
Date: 2019-07-12 19:20
John -- thanks. I had to reduce the tenon size of all the Charles Bay "estate" mpcs I got ... so I'm familiar with reducing to fit.
Unfortunately, this clarinet has a replacement barrel. It's a super-old B&H barrel (I've never seen this sort of marking). So I lack the barrel that was designed for this clarinet.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2019-07-12 22:13
If it's an old barrel and has a 5-figure serial number on it, it should be suitable for any older B&H clarinet made between the wars.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2019-07-14 21:55
Just to add to this, here are a few pictures of what I meant. Both are Booseys from about 1930; one is pure simple system, whereas the other has the Clinton-Barret mechanism. Both have the small mouthpice tenon, of about 21.0 mm diameter, as opposed to 22.2 mm for a modern example. You can spot the small one by eye, even without the modern comparison.
The Clinton-Barret has a conventional style tuning barrel, but the simple system one has an interesting internal metal tuning slide, so that there is no gap between the joints when you pull out. Both kinds of barrels have a 28,000-ish serial number on them.
And both instruments are indeed wide bore. The top/bottom measurements of the upper joint are 15.40/15.29 for the simple system and 15.20/15.10 for the Clinton-Barret system. So even if you lathed down a standard mouthpiece tenon to fit, it would probably still need reaming out in order to play in tune.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2019-07-14 21:56
Attachment: 20190714_183214.jpg (570k)
Attachment: 20190714_182153.jpg (441k)
Just to add to this, here are a few pictures of what I meant. Both are Booseys from about 1930; one is pure simple system, whereas the other has the Clinton-Barret mechanism. Both have the small mouthpiece tenon, of about 21.0 mm diameter, as opposed to 22.2 mm for a modern example. You can spot the small one by eye, even without the modern comparison.
The Clinton-Barret has a conventional style tuning barrel, but the simple system one has an interesting internal metal tuning slide, so that there is no gap between the joints when you pull out. Both kinds of barrels have a 28,000-ish serial number on them.
And both instruments are indeed wide bore. The top/bottom measurements of the upper joint are 15.40/15.29 for the simple system and 15.20/15.10 for the Clinton-Barret system. So even if you lathed down a standard mouthpiece tenon to fit, it would probably still need reaming out in order to play in tune.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2019-07-15 03:54
Bill, If your clarinet is one of the large bore B & H instruments then you may need to look at mouthpieces intended for instruments such as the B & H 1010. These are also large bore and require a mouthpiece specifically designed for them. The B & H one is marked 1010, but standard French style mouthpieces can be adapted by reaming out the conical bore until it is cylindrical. Best done by somebody who knows what they're doing. Try it with a standard French-style mouthpiece and check the tuning. If it's way off then consider the above.
Tony F.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2019-07-15 04:21
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John Peacock -- fascinating! Thanks. I've attached pictures of the barrel that is with the clarinet. Ity appears to be lined with something (rubber?) that isn't metal. Then something is visible at the bottom of the barrel. I assume this is the top joint. The clarinet is new to me, and in the days that I've had it, I have not been able to remove the barrel -- its frozen. The barrel is wood; the clarinet is hard rubber.
I do have a selection of B&H 1010 mouthpieces at my disposal (including one from the 1940s).
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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