 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-11 01:34
At our orchestra concert last Sunday, our principle clarinetist lost a screw on his clarinet (the one on the upper joint that goes into the bottom of the LH ring key rod). He found it after the concert thankfully; also thankful we didn't need our A clarinets, so he borrowed that screw until he found the one for his Bb.
After that mess, I decided to check over my stuff to make sure that didn't happen to me (since it actually has, but not during a concert). I was checking screws (a couple rod screws were coming out a little), springs (all good though one is rusting a bit at the tip), and tone holes (a little yuckiness in a couple). That's when I noticed that in all 3 tone holes in the lower joint on Bb clarinet look like they have been modified. On the side closest to the bore, they have been cut so the opening on the inside is wider.
Have these tone holes been undercut? I've heard that term used a lot, but never actually knew what it meant. What does undercutting do to the pitch? Is this why my Bb is noticeably sharp relative to my A (the tone holes in the A haven't been modified)? I use the same barrel on both (either a Moennig or Chadash, both 64mm, and basically whichever I happen to grab; have been going to the Chadash more lately though it's a little tougher getting that one on my A without cork grease). I know the Bb is shorter so the pitch will be sharper, but the difference is very noticeable (at least to me it is).
In my A, there are a couple strips of what looks like black tape in a couple tone holes. I assume this works opposite of how the adjustments to the Bb work.(?) If I were to take those out, what effect would that have on overall pitch? I don't want to take them out if it's going to mess things up since I don't think I would be able to put them back in.
Thanks for your input everybody.
Rachel
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-12-11 02:28
Your Bb is probably sharper because you are using a 64 mm barrel on it, NOT because of undercutting. Not sure what clarinet you play,but ona "standard" R13Bb, the normal barrel length is 66mm. I think the A of the same model comes from the factory with a 65 mm barrel. On Buffets, they also have different bores, so the same barrel will have different effects on the Bb and the A. What brands/models are you using?
As a point of reference, my daughter's 1971 vintage Bb R13 uses a Buffet 66mm barrel. She uses a 64 mm Chadash on her newer R13 A. My Ridenour 576 BC Bb plays perfectly in tune at A=440 with the 65 mm barrel it came with. The Leblanc/Backun Symphonie Bb plays similarly in tune with 66mm Backun Traditional barrels.
Undercutting is generally applied to adjust the pitch of an individual tonehole, NOT to make the clarinet sharper overall.
If the tonehole tape is closer to the mouthpiece end, it is to lower the pitch of that particular tonehole's notes. If it works for you, DON'T mess with it!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-12-11 02:37)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-11 12:58
All professional clarinets have undercutting. The reason is so the hole on the inside of the clarinet is larger than the hole on the "top" of the clarinet. It's done for tuning as well as tone quality. An example, if a note is flat one might have the tone hole undercut so that the air reaches the hole sooner making it a bit sharper instead of just making the entire hole larger, the same can be done if the note is stuffy and it's not caused by something else. One puts "tape" in a tone hole if the note is sharp, that way the air reaches the tone hole a little "later", that is making the tone hole longer without drilling the hole larger. In some cases a tone hole will be undercut because the note is stuffy and has tape in it to bring the pitch down or to raise the pitch of the lower 12th but lower the pitch of the upper 12th, I'm not convinced that always works though. Whoever had your clarinet before had some tuning work done which is the reason you have tape in some holes.
A Bb clarinet should not be sharper than an A clarinet. Of course it's a 1/2 step higher but your concert pitch should still be A44, or what ever your ensemble tunes to. Depending on your mouthpiece and how you voice you usually need a different size barrel for the Bb and A but some players use the same size or even the same barrel. It depends on those factors. My Buffet set I use the same size, 67mm, but because the bore is so different I use a 62.5 on my Selmer Bb. ESPhttp://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-13 00:05
Both barrels I have are the ones that came with the clarinets when I bought them. One of them used to be 66mm but it was shortened by the previous owner. The reason I use the same barrel on both is because of switches. I can't pull just the mouthpiece off without getting the ligature and reed all discombobulated. My teacher said part of why that happens to me is how I take the mouthpiece off. He showed me a different way to grip it, but it involves switching hands from what I'm used to (I use my left hand to twist the barrel off; he showed me how to twist the mouthpiece putting the ligature screw into the palm of my right hand). That seems to be one of the things I can't swap hands with. I can't buy a longer barrel, so I contend with what I have.
Our orchestra tunes to A440. I wasn't sure if the undercutting had something to do with the disparity in pitch before warming my horns up. The Bb is generally sharp (20 cents give or take). The A is always flat (about 20 cents) unless it's really warm in the room. I remember a concert last year we played in a hot room (one of our nursing home concerts I think). The A clarinet was at 440 when I took it out of the case. I actually checked my tuner to see if it was still at 440.
I thought it was interesting that my Bb was undercut and my A wasn't. The A is slightly older (394,xxx vs 406,xxx or 409,xxx (can't remember which, but it's one of those)).
Rachel
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-12-13 01:58
I'm going out on a limb and say that you're playing a Vandoren 13 series mouthpiece or low pitched Zinner blank mouthpiece.
There's no reason for an A clarinet with a 64mm barrel to be flat when you pull it out of the case for A440. There's something wrong with that picture. If indeed your mouthpiece is pitched low, that would be the first thing to try. Second, try other barrels of various lengths and see if the problem is there. If neither of those things help at all, there are two other possibilities:
1) The clarinet has either been tampered with for someone who plays so sharp they messed with it to play very flat, or it has some major issue with tone holes\bore size.
or
2) You blow flat. Have other players play on your setup with a tuner to see if you're having a significant affect on the tuning. If you're blowing 20 cents flatter than your teacher for instance, there are playing fundamentals that need to be addressed.
You don't mention your mouthpiece or ligature choice. I know there are lots of people who play the same barrel on both clarinets. Common excuses are that the cork\bore of the barrel sizes are different so it's easier to use the same barrel or that the ligature and reed get messed up when changing. Neither of these excuses are letting you reach an ideal playing position for both horns.
It is to your advantage to have barrels that better match each instrument and find a way to remove the mouthpiece quickly and easily (and safely). If this involves shaving the cork of the mouthpiece a bit, using more cork grease, adjusting the socket of the barrel, then do so. It is worthwhile and will make your orchestral life easier.
After all, there's enough to worry about in orchestral playing without ligatures and reeds flying everywhere or picking up a very flat A clarinet! It should be at most 5 cents low when it hasn't been played at all. Preferably it should be right at pitch pushed all the way in to allow for upward mobility if the orchestras' pitch rises (which they often do).
Good Luck!
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-14 03:33
I play on a Vandoren M13 mouthpiece (just got it - was playing on a 5RV; both series 13). Ligature is Rovner Eddie Daniels. I figured it had to either be me (most likely, but I'd been hoping picking up lessons again this year would help that), or an equipment issue since the difference between the A and Bb is so noticeable. I shall have to experiment with our 3rd clarinet player in orchestra (she plays on R13's as well).
Rachel
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