 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-04-30 04:48
Hello
I was wondering if there are any alternatives to almond oil for oiling clarinet bores you guys recommend for people like me who are allergic to almonds? I've heard canola and olive oil (not sure which grade) are suitable, and to avoid synthetic petroleum distillate oils.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alanporter
Date: 2023-04-30 06:05
I have used Avocado Oil ( which my wife uses for cooking) for several years now. As far as I am concerned it works excellently. I use it in the bore and on the outside, and I am always happy with the results.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-04-30 06:23
Some natural oils will become rancid quite quickly. It would pay to do some research into the oxidising characteristics of oils before using them.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-04-30 13:50
I think that some vegetable oils might tend to leave sticky deposits and I imagine that the viscosity of an oil is also important . If the oil is too thick then it's penatration into the wood will be poor .Also there is the question of how readily an oil emulsifies with water .
Where I live , the warmth and perpetual humidity mean that mould is a problem . An instrument carefully cleaned up and stored in its case can offer nasty surprises if left for too long , so here again the use of an organic oil might well prove to create problems . It's amazing the things on which mould can get a foothold.
Personally I'm inclined to trust the bore-oil formulas of the leading brands , if only for want of better knowledge , although I can't help but wonder what I'm paying seemingly so much for .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-04-30 20:30
Some clarinet manufacturers (as Schwenk & Seggelke) and repair shops recommends linseed oil (probably since it hardens with some time, and thus doesn't get washed out as quickly as other, non-hardening oils - don't know however for how long it should be left undisturbed once it has been absorbed into the wood, for the hardening to become completed).
I use food grade, organic linseed oil from our local supermarket. Not overly expensive, but if not used also for cooking, a bottle will last far beyond the "best before" date, and eventually get rancid (you can tell from the smell, which in itself isn't too bad, but easily distinguishable from non-rancid oil). An opened bottle is recommended to be stored in the fridge, which I also do.
I use recorder brushes for applying, where the left over oil also eventually hardens. Thus the brushes needs to be replaced every now and then.
It's definitely thicker than most commercial bore oils, but gets very well absorbed anyway (until the wood is fully saturated, of course, as with any kind of oil).
Post Edited (2023-04-30 20:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-04-30 21:27
One option is Grenadoil from Doctor's Products. It's much more expensive than pretty much all other oils. I think they still exist and offer it, but not sure since I stopped checking once they stopped offering international shipping.
Most regular cooking oils like olive oil or canola oil can become rancid too fast.
Something to consider... Generally there are two approaches to oiling. One is to use a "breathing" oil e.g. almond oil. The other is to use "blocking" oil e.g. some petroleum oils. The latter essentially forms a layer and captures the moisture inside the wood while the former lets it "breath". Instead of petroleum oil I'm wondering if flaxseed oil would work the same e.g. same as for steel and iron pans.
A lot of wood workers use both methods, even on the same type of wood, so it's not that one is necessarily better than the other. The former ("breathing" oil) is generally more common for clarinets.
Are you allergic specifically to almonds? Are you allergic to nuts? If you are, are there any nuts you are not allergic to? Some nut oils are resistant to becoming rancid.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-05-01 20:53
clarnibass wrote:
> Are you allergic specifically to almonds? Are you allergic to nuts? If you are, are there any nuts you are not allergic to?
I am not allergic to pecans, pistachios, or walnuts, but everything else is a no-go for me. I also have a peanut allergy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-05-01 21:21
I've been using raw linseed oil with no problem for both the owners and the instruments. I just apply it to evenly coat the bore, then mop the excess and apply more where it's been absorbed the most until it absorbs no more, then mop the bore to leave it looking dry (as opposed to looking dried out).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-05-02 07:56
>> I am not allergic to pecans, pistachios, or walnuts, but everything else is a no-go for me. I also have a peanut allergy. <<
If you are allergic I imagine you are used to it, but maybe worth mentioning anyway... Locally food products have "ingredients", "contains" and "might contain". "Ingredients" is obvious. "Contains" means it's not an ingredient but is very likely to contain it, though often just miniscule amounts, because of the environment it's made in. "Might contain" means there is a (very) small chance that it might have very small amounts because of the environment but also likely to not have any, they just can't guarantee it.
Since you are allergic I would avoid an oil even if the allergic ingredient is mentioned in whatever the "might contain" equivalent is in your country.
There are at least three options that might be good.
1. Walnut oil. It is one of the oils that barely if ever becomes rancid. I haven't tried it on clarinets but I can't see a problem with it. Check allergens.
2. Grenadoil from Doctor's Products. It's much more expensive but should last quite a few years. As far as I understand it is essentially a copy of the oil in grenadilla wood, but made synthetically. I've used this for years along with other oils and can't say I see a difference between this and other good oils. If you are considering this oil, definitely ask them in advance about any possibility of your allergens being in it, especially since they also make an almonds and nuts bore oil (maybe made in the same room, etc.).
3. Flax oil. Locally it is basically called "linseed oil for food" but for some reason in some countries (e.g. USA) the food grade version is called flax, while linseed is the version not made for food. I would definitely use the food grade option. There is no reason to use an oil that isn't food safe regardless. Check allergens.
Of the three, Grenadoil acts as a "breathing" oil. Flax oil is mostly a "blocking" oil. I have no experience with walnut oil as a bore oil to say, but I think it is probably a "breathing" oil (edit: based on the post below, it seems walnut is actually a "blocking" oil).
Post Edited (2023-05-02 09:51)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Robert N.
Date: 2023-05-02 09:33
I don't know about this much from the clarinet point of view, but I use linseed (flax) oil and walnut oil for oil painting. They are used for oil painting because they are drying oils, they will dry to a solid film. Other oils such as almond, olive, and and avocado will not dry to a film.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-05-02 10:55
>> 2. Grenadoil from Doctor's Products. <<
I see that on their site but also another oil called "bore doctor". Will these work equally well?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-05-02 15:20
>> I see that on their site but also another oil called "bore doctor". Will these work equally well? <<
No, the Bore Doctor oil is made of almonds and nuts. Only the Grenadoil is the synthetic copy of grenadilla oil, and even then make sure to ask about any allergens.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-05-02 16:42
as anyone ever had any problems with linseed oil? Is there even a problem with linseed oil? I can't say I've ever encountered any problems with it or know of anyone who has.
Seeing as it's been used by most oboe and clarinet makers both in the UK and mainland Europe for however long, has anyone ever died of it in all that time?
I'm still alive as I'm typing this and I've used linseed oil for well over three decades now.
I'm sure there are far worse artificial additives in the foods you eat and the air you breathe that will do you more harm than raw linseed oil could do. It's been used medicinally for its antiseptic qualities and that was well before the alleged 'food safe' versions were available.
If you're worried about the toxicity of raw linseed oil (if it is toxic), then don't lick your clarinet and wear surgeons' gloves while you play, whilst also wearing a mask.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-05-02 18:55
Just to avoid possible misunderstandings, pure linseed oil (whether food grade or not, but not just as one ingredient among others, as in paint) applied on uncoated wood will become completely absorbed - and not dry to a solid film on the surface.
The bore of a well played clarinet that hasn't been oiled for long, will probably absorb a thin layer of linseed oil in just a few minutes. After that, the bore will appear completely dry again - but not due to any solid, dry film on the surface.
If additional layers are applied, the dry surface (= fully absorbed) would take longer and longer to appear - as the wood gradually becomes more and more saturated.
If still adding a layer after the wood has become fully saturated (remaining wet, even for days and weeks), and if not wiped clean and the instrument isn't played and thus not swabbed either, then a solid film could form on the surface of the bore - due to the hardening of linseed oil with time (but probably not until at least several weeks, or longer).
However, and as I understand, why many clarinet manufacturers and repairers are favoring linseed oil, isn't to form a solid film on the surface of the bore but since it hardens also inside the wood. That is, after it has been fully absorbed - and thus that way protecting the wood from moisture for longer.
Those who for possible health issues prefer food grade oils, would probably not use a synthetically made copy of grenadilla oil, as Grenadoil seems to be. Despite that we are blowing and not inhaling while playing, the aroma of the oil of a recently oiled bore can be sensed in the mouth (even when the oil has been fully absorbed in the wood, with the surface appearing dry) - so perhaps there are some valid grounds for cautiousness in this regard?
Post Edited (2023-05-02 19:17)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-05-02 21:26
>> No, the Bore Doctor oil is made of almonds and nuts. Only the Grenadoil is the synthetic copy of grenadilla oil, and even then make sure to ask about any allergens. <<
All right, thank you, I will go with this then.
For the people mentioning linseed oil, are you referring to the same linseed oil that will cause oil-soaked rags to spontaneously light on fire after being left exposed to air for a while?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-05-02 21:44
>> as anyone ever had any problems with linseed oil? <<
Everything you wrote is probably true, but the point is, since there is a food-safe version of linseed oil, why not use it if you have the choice? Locally food safe flax oil is actually much easier to find anyway.
>> Those who for possible health issues prefer food grade oils, would probably not use a synthetically made copy of grenadilla oil, as Grenadoil seems to be. <<
As far as I know that's what Grenadoil is. Re being food safe, I have no idea. I only know that their Bore Doctor oil is food safe, or at least it used to be back when Omar told me you could put it in your salad (I haven't tried it...). Of course it doesn't mean anything about the Grenadoil.
>> All right, thank you, I will go with this then. <<
If you do, make sure to ask about allergens.
You could also just go with flax oil, probably easy to find in a local super market.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-05-03 00:34
I haven't even seen such a thing as 'food safe' or 'food grade' linseed oil being sold in the usual places (craft shops, tool shops, etc.) and haven't seen it being used by any woodwind specialists as they tend to use raw linseed oil which is readily available. Although I suspect it's probably sold in the one shop I've rarely ever been in which is a health food shop.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-05-03 10:40
>> I haven't even seen such a thing as 'food safe' or 'food grade' linseed oil being sold in the usual places <<
Here it's available in a lot of very regular super markets, some of the health food stores and even in some small convenience stores. I don't know if it will have "food grade" on it. Locally it's just sold for cooking, same as other cooking oils don't have "food safe" on them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-05-03 19:20
I believe that there's raw linseed oil which is " food safe ", and then boiled linseed oil which is the one that dries forming a film which tends to have added drying agents so.... Not food safe .
I imaging one can buy the raw "food safe" one in a Farmacist/ Drud store .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paintrunner
Date: 2023-05-04 06:04
Food grade linseed oil is labelled Flax seed oil, here in Australia. It oxidises very quickly, and should be refrigerated when opened (or get capsules).
R
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-05-08 18:24
>> For the people mentioning linseed oil, are you referring to the same linseed oil that will cause oil-soaked rags to spontaneously light on fire after being left exposed to air for a while? <<
That's correct. Still, with the relatively small amounts of left over oil at clarinet oiling, I haven't bothered. I usually clean the sockets with a paper towel which I reuse a couple of times without storing it airtight, and the same with a cloth wrapped around a long brush for wiping out the bore.
However, the recorder brush which I apply the oil with, I store in a closed plastic bag in the fridge - but just in an attempt to postpone the hardening of the left over oil on it, as well as it going rancid.
Another thing: Since the hardening process of linseed/Flax oil needs the presence of air, I'm not sure if the oil absorbed into the wood actually ever hardens - which I assumed in an earlier post. If not, its function would be the same as for non hardening oils, with a similar need of replacement.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-06-25 18:40
Most manufacturers do not recommend oiling the bore. Mind you, it's a great way to mess up your clarinet and cause all sorts of problems!
The oiling advice seems to date from a time when cracking was far more prevalent. Most technicians now agree that if a clarinet is going to crack it will crack and superficial treatments will do nothing to resolve any tensions in the wood.
It's far more important to dry the clarinet properly, keep the instrument in room where the temperature does not vary dramatically and humidity is appropriate.
Just last week I discovered some oil I had been sent claiming to be the best thing since sliced bread. It had leaked into some other components stored in a plastic box. The oil had formed a sticky residue that was almost impossible to remove. I hate to think what it would have done to a clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-25 21:16
A spilled tin of varnish will make a similar sticky mess , but that does not make it unsuitable for use as a moisture resistant coating on furniture.
Moisture absorbed into the bore is what causes" tensions in the wood".
To what extent bore oil prevents this is anybody's guess .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-06-25 21:23
symphony1010 wrote:
> Most manufacturers do not recommend oiling the bore. Mind you,
> it's a great way to mess up your clarinet and cause all sorts
> of problems!
>
I don't actually remember that ANY of the major instrument manufacturers when I bought my first R13 in 1962 were recommending it.
> The oiling advice seems to date from a time when cracking was
> far more prevalent.
Even then (during the 1980s and '90s?) it wasn't as far as I was aware the manufacturers who were recommending it.
And then people began arguing over what KIND of oil to use.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-06-25 23:08
Just to be clear, manufacturers say NO to bore oil.
https://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/care-maintenance/
Peter Eaton - UK clarinet manufacturer https://www.eatonclarinets.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-06-26 00:56
Even though I’m somewhat hesitant to date myself, I remember reading through a stash of my first clarinet teacher’s issues of “The Clarinet” (the magazine from the 1950’s, not the current publication). Since the magazines weren’t mine, I took careful notes so I would have all that essential knowledge at my fingertips. One thing I particularly recall was a comment/fact/factoid that stated that one should never oil the bore of the clarinet because it will deaden the sound. Ergo, I have never done so since that reading in the mid-1960s.
symphony1010 is exactly correct when he states that if an instrument is going to crack, it’s gonna crack, no matter how careful one is with their horn (yet another one of my teachers mentioned that to me on more than one occasion). I have been exceedingly careful with all my instruments over these many years and, indeed, have had cracks. Big deal, so what - you get it pinned by someone who knows what they’re doing. My clarinets didn’t play any differently so why should anybody get their proverbial in a knot about getting a crack?
But don’t oil your bores…
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-26 09:53
In my experience , if a piece of wood cracks then it is indeed an individual piece of wood thing above all . The extent to which it is exposed to grain tensions remains a factor however . Personally I would have to run tests on bore oil as a wood protector to form an opinion. Ie. Its efficacy as a moisture barrier and how long it offers its protection for . The latter being the question I'm most inclined to wonder about .
That it dampens tone ,sounds like a " Pricess and the Pea" thing and I myself are more among the discarded princesses that gets a good nights sleep...pea or no pea ....so again...no option there.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2023-06-26 12:39
innocent question: is oiling the bore merely to prevent cracking. My clarinet has never cracked -nor have I! But, its bore looks like a a dried-up riverbed . Wouldn't a smooth, shiny bore make for better response?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-06-26 15:00
Go and have a look at the bore of top players' clarinets. If they look as you describe, worry no more!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alanporter
Date: 2023-06-28 00:00
Since it appears that most experienced players are against oiling the bore, would there be a recommendation for continuing oiling the outside of the clarinet ?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-06-28 19:47
A few technicians will polish the outside with the instrument completely stripped down and perhaps they use something but I certainly wouldn't use anything with keys and pads in place.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-06-28 21:10
Well, I might see the merit of someone polishing the exterior of a clarinet with a certain kind of cloth but using oil seems to me to be more than a bit of overkill, not to mention the probable residue (what a cool way to gum up the fingers, eh? 😂).
I remember my stand mate back in high school who didn’t care for how his instrument smelled (particularly inside the bore) so he appropriated his mother’s hair spray to take care of that “problem”.
He couldn’t play the damn thing for over a week until the fumes dissipated!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-28 23:47
Is the "oil" you have in mind also a hair product by any chance ?
That would account for the " probable residue" you didn't not mention .
If you've never used bore oil and don't believe in it...that's fine, but then why voice opinions proclaiming its characteristics .I've refreshed the finish on clarinets by very sparingly and judicially applied bore oil and it works beautifully without any of the issues you have suggested.( NO sticky residues...lovely new look!).
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-06-29 00:24
Uh, Julian - if you were addressing your comments my way, I’ve never used any sort of oil on the outside of my clarinets, let alone in the bore, nor have I voiced any opinions as to its “characteristics”. I simply said I would never use it as it’s unnecessary and, depending on one’s point of view, harmful to the tonal qualities of the instrument. And, frankly, with those with whom I worked throughout my somewhat lengthy career, not a one oiled their bores. Must be a reason for that…
As to the look? Well, knock yourself out! Personally, I’ve always been a lot more focused on how my instrument sounds - not the way it looks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-06-29 00:34
This has been one of my favorite bore oil threads.
Thanks to symphony1010, lmliberson, kdk, etc. for referring back to the manufacturers, early clarinet articles, etc.
In searching the various clarinet manufacturer's websites just now (6/28/2023), I couldn't really find any that recommended oiling the bore - with one exception.
I found some (like the link provided by symphony1010 to Peter Eaton) recommending AGAINST oiling the bore. I found some (like Buffet) that recommend AGAINST oiling the bore - but carefully word it so that there is a little ambiguity about whether this only pertains to new instruments, or all instruments. And one (Yamaha) which doesn't really voice a bias one way or the other about oiling, but lists oiling the bore as "an option" for seasonal care (they also list bore oil for sale next to the article.)
Uebel, on the other hand seemed to stand out as the lone manufacturer which recommends routine oiling of the bore. (Specifically with a product they sell.)
Perhaps some of you know of others (or perhaps have correspondence from a specific manufacturer) which show support of oiling the bore?
As the websites show at this time, it appears most manufacturers recommend against bore oil - with only one explicitly supporting it.
I find it somewhat humorous, that the manufacturers who recommend bore oil, or mention it as an option - also sell their preferred oil. This leaves open the question whether there's a financial/marketing reason for the recommendation. Of course, it could also be explained by a true belief that their bore oil provides the "best care" for their clarinets.
Perhaps I'll check the wayback machine and see what these same companies were saying some years ago. If I have time, I'll post the results.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-29 01:28
Hi ImIberson,
Great !...then we both agree that how you sound is important .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-06-30 05:17
So - in response to my earlier post pertaining to manufacturer suggestions...the wayback machine showed the following (dates given for each company were the oldest date I could find):
Buffet - no change going back to Feb 11, 2017
Peter Eaton - no change going back to Dec 5, 2005
Yamaha - no change going back to Sept 27, 2021
Uebel - No mention of oiling the bore between March 13, 2014 and 2019...but this might be due to a web page redesign after that point. There were supposedly two pages for clarinet care between 2014 and 2019, and only the first page showed up in the archive for those years. It is possible that the second page might have mentioned oiling the bore (or not?).
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-06-30 12:38
Wurlitzer recommends oiling, with any kind of acid free oil (text only in German): https://wurlitzerklarinetten.de/care-instructions-clarinets/?lang=en
They recommend oiling as soon as the varnish originally applied to the bore starts wearing off.
Also Schwenk & Seggelke recommends oiling, with cold pressed linseed oil of "any supermarket-brand": https://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/_en/faq.php
Interestingly, S&S recommends oiling for instruments that "didn't receive any other type of impregnation" - as their clarinets. Thus, if other makers uses such other kind of impregnations, their clarinets may not need oiling.
They also tell this: "The amount of oil needed varies according to the type of wood: grenadilla wood requires quite a small amount of oil, mopane wood slightly more, and boxwood needs quite a lot of oil."
A general overhaul at Kronthaler's includes a "one week oil bath minimum": https://www.kronthaler-klarinetten.de/english-1/f-a-q/repairs/
Post Edited (2023-06-30 17:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2023-06-30 12:53
Micke: they don't say what kind of oil is used for this "oil bath." It seems to be of common use in Germany. They claim it brings a "blown-out" clarinet back to life.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-06-30 13:33
Ruben, as to your earlier question: As I understand, oiling isn't just to prevent cracking but also to prevent degradation of the wood itself. In my experience the first obvious long term moisture-induced decay will appear at the upper end of the tenon of the top joint, as well as at the lower end. At first, those spots gets visibly discoloured, then porous and eventually even more or less "rotten" in appearance (that's of course also why some clarinet makers uses metal covering on these tenons, as a preventative measure). Also the inside of the sockets of the barrels tend to be vulnerable.
Post Edited (2023-06-30 17:21)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-06-30 16:54
By the way, some years ago I saw a very much degraded and visibly porous uppermost part of the upper joint upper tenon on a used Buffet Elite for sale in a shop. Thus if Buffet used some other kind of impregnation than oil on those clarinets, its protective effect was apparently limited.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2023-06-30 23:01
My clarinet received an "oil bath" once and ended up smelling of beef stew for two months! I happen to hate beef stew. That said, I don't want to beef about this.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2023-07-01 20:40
My understanding (not the same as certainty) is that Boosey and Hawkes carried out some tests to pressure treat the wood in the 70s with measurement showing there was virtually no absorption of the product.
If this was the case then we are left with superficial application which may or may not hold back moisture. I have not personally seen well maintained instruments looking 'dried out' or degraded.
When I was a student the chief designer at Boosey met with me regularly and they serviced my instruments, as required, free of charge(!) During these consultations it was apparent that the company had constant issues with cracking and many players needed 'transplants' as we called them. Minor cracks were filled and observed but often there was nothing to be done but strip the keys and replace the joint. I rarely hear of cracks with Buffet instruments and my own main pair purchased in 1987 remain perfect in this regard.
My own technician was also bass clarinet with Scottish National and Bournemouth Symphony orchestras. He does not approve of oiling as he sees no benefits and there is always the risk of pad contamination.
Personally that's what I freely accept and it's also stated by the manufacturer of my instruments. That should be good enough for anyone I think.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-07-02 00:44
I pulled out an instrument I've had in storage today and ran a little tap water over the bell, because I remember using Yamaha bore oil on it to remove a couple of mould blemishes on the wood I found some months ago . The water did bead and run off ,but then it's only been in the case these past months ...not actually in use .
I suspect that the real question with bore oil, is not whether it creates a protective water resistant barrier , so much as how long this protection effectively lasts. Probably not very long I suspect, which means that in a real word situation, the instrument is ultimately destined to face the trials of humidity within the bore, and bore oil probably can't save it from a destiny of cracking if the wood has got a mind to crack .
I think that bore oil is likely just one of those things that seems to make sense in theory, but probably doesn't add up in reality .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JTJC
Date: 2023-07-02 14:01
It's been said the wood loses its natural oils through playing, so oiling is an attempt to replace those. There does seem to be a change over time in the colour of the bore. It does look drier. From my experience, it does seem there is some absorption of oil put on the bore. The oil isn't evaporating.
I do remember seeing a video about the manufacturing processes for clarinets by a major manufacturer, unfortunately I can't remember which one. There was a stage where the wood was put into what looked like large pressure cookers for oiling. Oil vapour would be finer than oil as liquid, so probably would get into the wood. I don't know whether that manufacturer recommended subsequent oiling of the bore etc. That manufacturer must have had good reason for bothering to undertake that expensive process.
The vapour point leads me to another observation, which I don't recall ever being discussed on the Board. After playing a while I find evidence of very light film of moisture on specific areas of the external surface of the lower joint of one of my instruments. At that stage, there is little to no condensation on the bore of the instrument, especially near to the area with the external film. This suggests that patch/area of wood is to some extent porous, not to condensed liquid, but the moisture in air/breath. Oiling would probably prevent moisture in that form from entering the wood. If an instrument had wood that displayed similar a similar tendency in the top joint, oiling might be a good thing.
The instrument in question was manufactured by a maker who ages his wood for decades and who doesn't recommend oiling.
Has anyone else noticed the external moisture film I've referred to?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-07-02 22:50
Given that this discussion seems to be going round and round without much resolutio, and given that ultimately it's a physics-science matter, I would like to offer this link which contains a scientific study of the effects of breath humidity (and temperature) on the bores of flutes, conducted by the Conservation Analytical Laboratory of the Smithsonian Institute.
While it does not cover the protective properties of bore oil , it does explain and detail the distorting effects on the bore and particularly the tenons caused be humidity expansions within the instrument.
https://www.conservationphysics.org/flute/flute.html
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
