Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Klarinet Archive - Posting 000130.txt from 2010/11

From: Diego Casadei <casadei.diego@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Up to Pitch or Down to Pitch?
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:18:10 -0500

Thanks for your message :-)

In my mind "perfect pitch" could be only used to define a scale which
contains all tones in the correct relation (correct within the tolerance
of the best human hear).

So, I would say that an instrument plays with "perfect pitch" when tuned
say at A=440 Hz if the ratios of all tones with this frequency are
correct within the tolerance mentioned above.

If one take such instrument, say a clarinet, and elongates it
significantly to lower the reference A pitch, then the ratios would
change in different ways and the instrument with the new (lower) tuning
would not be any more in "perfect pitch".

But I must admit that I'm unsure that what I wrote is perfect English.
I hope people can understand me anyway.

Cheers,
Diego

PS: Just to make things more complicate, I should say that first of all
we should agree on the definition of the "correct" scale. Natural and
tempered scales are different, for example.

sfdr@-----.com wrote:
>
>
> My late LSU Professor John P. Patterson, was a student of the great acoustician Arthur Benade. Mr. Patterson said that the "Perfect" should never be used in describing pitch, as nobody has a ear keen enough to distinguish subtle pitch differences. He had a series of tuning bars, a-440, a-440.1, a-440.3, a-440.4 and a-440.6. He then invited 5 students with "Perfect Pitch" into his studio to identify the different pitch levels and none of them could do it. So how keen is the human ear? Pitch can vary form one person to another because air pressure, temperature, inner ear wax and ear fluid. A reed, violin bridge and clarinet bore can change dimensions within seconds thus causing the pitch to fluctuate.
> When my repair teacher, W. Hans Moennig died, I inherited his tools and instruments. In the collection was a clarinet which belonged to Robert Marcellus. When I first saw this instrument in 1977, I ask about the 70mm barrel that was with it. Moennig said, Marcellus used the longer barrel to darken the sound and had all of the tone holes enlarged to compensate for the lower pitch level. Marcellus felt that he could obtain a better tone with more intensity put pushing to air faster on a lower pitched instrument that pushing the air slower on a higher pitched instrument.
> After comparing the blueprints of woodwind instruments of today to those made during the 1940's and 50's, I discovered that drastic design changes have occurred. The wing joints of newer Heckel bassoons are 5 to 8 mm shorter. The lower joints of newer Loree Oboe are 3 to 5 mm shorter. Flute headjoints are shorter and clarinet bores are larger and the bells have smaller throat dimensions. All of the change are designed to help the player relax and play down to pitch center instead of biting to playing up to pitch pitch center. In other words, playing concepts and instrument design have evolved over the years to make performing easier for the musician. But easier is not necessarily better.
> The question before us today is: Are we better off playing up to pitch of down to pitch? The concert master of the Philadelphia orchestra once asked Oboist, Marcel Tabuteau if he could bring the tuning A up a little bit. Tabuteau responded, "Sharpness is never a valid substitute for musical intensity".
>
>
> Good luck,
> Alvin Swiney
> 3126 W Cary St. #237
> Richmond, VA 23221
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Bowen<keith.bowen@-----.com>
> To: 'The Klarinet Mailing List'<klarinet@-----.com>
> Sent: Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:26 am
> Subject: Re: [kl] RES: Orchestral Pitch
>
>
> People do have so-called perfect pitch, ie they have an aural memory of
> pitches and can reproduce them at will. Of course, the exact pitch depends
> on the instrument, usually a piano, on which they acquired this memory. And
> its temperament. So people indeed differ. The accuracy of this phenomenon, I
> am told, is in the region 1 - 5 Hz at around a'=440, though I have not
> tested this.
>
> Claiming the whole orchestra was flat is as stupid as the first oboe
> pointing to their tuner and saying that everyone else is out of tune.
>
> Keith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Baxter [mailto:martinbaxter1@-----.com]
> Sent: 12 November 2010 12:08
> To: The Klarinet Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [kl] RES: Orchestral Pitch
>
> Hi Nancy,
> On that theme could one have perfect pitch in Vienna?
> When I was at Manchester University the other four members of my group for
> Aural training all had perfect pitch, as did the tutor (Clifford Knowles,
> who later led the Liverpool Phil.Orch. However they were not all quite in
> tune with each other.Clifford was definitely sharp to A=440Hz, as was shown
> at a rather disastrous concert where he was the soloist in the Beethoven
> Concerto with the University Orchestra. Prof. Procter-Gregg had carefully
> tuned the orchestra to his tuning fork, which was A=440. Clifford played
> sharp to the orchestra the whole way through, and afterwards contended that
> the orchestra was consistently flat.
> Martin
>
> On 11 Nov 2010, at 23:46, Nancy Buckman wrote:
>
> So..... is there such a thing as perfect pitch? Is one person's more
> perfect than another's? Please discuss!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Klarinet mailing list
> Klarinet@-----.com
> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
> database 5613 (20101112) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
> database 5613 (20101112) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Klarinet mailing list
> Klarinet@-----.com
> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com
>
>
>
>
>
> =
> _______________________________________________
> Klarinet mailing list
> Klarinet@-----.com
> To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
> http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com

--

Diego Casadei
__________________________________________________________
Physics Department, CERN
New York University bld. 32, S-A19
4 Washington Place 1211 Geneve 23
New York, NY 10003 Mailbox J28310
USA Switzerland
office: +1-212-998-7675 office: +41-22-767-6809
mobile: +39-347-1460488 mobile: +41-76-213-5376
http://cern.ch/casadei/ Diego.Casadei@-----.ch
----------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Klarinet mailing list
Klarinet@-----.com
To do darn near anything to your subscription, go to:
http://klarinet-list.serve-music.com

   
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org