Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Klarinet Archive - Posting 000374.txt from 2005/08

From: Karl Krelove <>
Subj: Re: [kl] Composers as teachers
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:26:18 -0400

As closely as I can reconstruct this, Tony posted a lengthy,
non-abrasive and interesting response to a post (which I no longer seem
to have) from Bryan Crumpler. In response to Tony's post, Vann Joe
Turner posted, as it turned out to no particularly good end, that he
found Tony's post meaningful. In doing so, however, he referenced an
earlier, apparently hostile exchange (which I no longer have and don't
remember reading) by calling it a disagreement, which characterization
Tony apparently felt dignified the earlier exchange than it deserved.
From that point on, the thread has become an exercise in
last-wordsmanship, with Adam Michlin and Donald Hinson joining in and
quickly replacing Vann Joe.

A few observations:

Vann Joe is, by his own admission as well as the evidence of a couple of
his other posts, an inexperienced player and musician. Tony is very much
more experienced and accomplished in the areas that are most germaine to
the Klarinet list.

Opinions are eveyone's right. But inexperienced players walk on very
thin ice when they use words like "gobbledygook" to describe what an
experienced teacher has written because they don't understand it, which
I gather happened in the earlier exchange between Vann Joe and Tony.
This is not to say that experienced players are automatically right or
that no one should question what they say - Tony Pay would be the first
to deny the sanctity of "accepted authority" and has done so many times
on Klarinet. But it seems to me, as a teacher myself who expects certain
behavior from my students, that experience and reputation deserve a
degree of courtesy and civility, and there are courteous and civil ways
to say "I don't understand" or "my own experience differs."

In fact, one of Tony's most consistent positions, it seems to me, is
that people (whatever their experience level or professional position)
who insist on one and only solution to a given problem, or even one view
of the problem itself, are generally either ignorant or deliberately
replacing genuine thought with egotistical posturing. To me his
continual reminders of this basic premise consitute one of his most
important contributions to Klarinet.

Little of the exchange among Tony, Donald and Adam since Tony's "Listen,
Vann Joe, we didn't 'disagree'" post has been especially enlightening in
itself and, rather than jump into the fray, most of us have simply
watched (or ignored) the whole thread, waiting for it to extinguish
itself, as all flame wars eventually must, one way or another. Most of
us have simply tried not to fan the flames or provide any additional fuel.

I've posted this because Tony specifically asked for opinions. To answer
Tony directly, I've never seen much value in gaining the last word for
its own sake and, once I've made a point I generally prefer for myself
to just let it go and allow whatever I've said to stand or fall on its
own merits. And I don't personally think that stupidity, if indeed
that's what's involved, will be in any way changed whether it's ignored
or challenged.

Tony Pay wrote:

>On 19 Aug, "Hinsons" <> wrote:
>>I make my living from clarinet repair and read much more than I write.
>Clearly you also write much more than you think.
>(I hope this observation doesn't spawn more crap from you; but I don't hold
>out much hope.
>What do you think, list? Should I just have kept quiet? Will it just
>perpetuate his stupidity?
>Or, do you think he *isn't* stupid? Is he perhaps articulating an important
>truth about my relationship to the list, and thus to clarinet playing in
>Answers, please.)

Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc.

     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact