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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000188.txt from 2005/05

From: "sarah elbaz" <>
Subj: Re: Fwd: Re: [kl] Possible racist views in music titles (Allies vs. Nazis)
Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 06:53:28 -0400

I just finished reading a new book by Amos Ayalon " The pity of it all" - about the relationship between
German Jews and Germans. Starting in Mendelsohnn's grandfather and ending in 1933. Very interesting and strong document.
And this week I've been in a meeting with the great-grandson of Wagner and heard so much about the
relationship of Wagner's family and Hitler.

In Israel there is still a boycott on Wagners music. It started in 1952. Jasha Heifetz played a recital in Tel Aviv
and after the concert he was attacked by some one because he played Richard Strauss (that person wanted to hit
Heifetz with a Hammer!). Only then people in Israel started to understand how much this music hearts the survivors. Daniel Barenboim and Zubin Mehta try every few years to play Wagner , but the boycott is very strong.
Sarah Elbaz

-------Original Message-------
> From: "Bill Hausmann" <>
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [kl] Possible racist views in music titles (Allies vs. Nazis)
> Sent: 08 May 2005 05:30:10
> Forwarded on behalf of Alvin Swiney (he was having trouble getting Klarinet
> to accept a post):
> >Lilia Loban made some very interesting points in her posting about the
> >Allied forces defeating the Nazis during World War II. During that time
> >many countries including the USA refused to performs Wagner's music as it
> >was associated with the Nazis of Germany. We condemned Philosophers such
> >as Carl Neiche for his relationship with Hitler. The American Government
> >criticized the Nazis for the murders of Jews, the inhuman treatment of
> >Jews and the awful medical experiments performed on Jewish inmates in the
> >many concentration camps throughout Europe.
> >      However, as Americans wave the Red, White and Blue flag to celebrate
> > VE Day, it is important to study history, be it good or bad, and learn
> > the truth. The type of truth that is not found in High School History
> > books from the 1960s. History should be preserve and exposed even though
> > certain aspects of it might be considered politically incorrect by
> > today's standard. We do learn from out mistakes.
> >      Now I would like to share a few things that most Americans students
> > won't learn in text books.  While the American Government Criticized Nazi
> > Germany for the infamous Medical Experimentation on living Jews, The
> > Tuskeegee experiment was taking place in Alabama simultaneously. This was
> > an experiment in which Black Males who had contracted syphilis were left
> > untreated for decades to see how long it would take for them to become
> > blind, lamed and eventually die. The American government actually did
> > this. The USA Condemned Hitler's Scientist for placing Jews in Freezers
> > to see how long the could survive in the cold and at the same time the US
> > Army pushed conscientious objectors such as the Amish and Mennonites into
> > Lake Michigan during the winter months of 1942 to see how long it would
> > take for them to develop frost bite. America criticized the German Nazis
> > for murdering millions of Jews during the Second World War while the
> > torture and lynching of innocent Blacks, such as Emmett Till, had been
> > ramped in the South for over 200 years. While American Historians often
> > remembers "Crystal Night", The tragic start of the Holocaust, very little
> > is ever said about the Race Riots of Memphis, TN; Detroit, MI; Washing,
> > DC and Elaine, AR in which African American Communities and Townships
> > were burned to the ground by White Mobs and Law enforcement officers
> > stood idly by and watched or even participated in the offense.
> >      A reporter once asked Adolph Hitler where he got the idea for the
> > Nazi concentration camps? Hitler's reply shocked me!  Hitler said, "I got
> > the idea from the Americans with their Indian Reservations. You see the
> > concept of putting unwanted people in designated areas behind fences
> > worked very well in the United States so I thought this Idea would be a
> > viable solution to our Jewish Problem here in Germany."
> >      As I have gotten older, I realize that there is a very thin line
> > between "Good and Bad", "Right and Wrong" and America and Nazi Germany.
> > Historical Accuracy should be preserve and not candy coated or diluted
> > for the sake of political correctness. Students should be able to read
> > old books and musical literature with racist titles and concepts and then
> > make their own decision as to what is right and wrong. After all, True
> > History is important. Hiding or removing the unpleasant and offensive
> > aspects of the past is not a viable option. Hitler tried to do that when
> > he burned books, schools and libraries in Nazi Germany. Censorship did
> > not work in 1940 and it will not work now.
> >
> >                                               The Truth will set you Free!
> >                                                 Alvin Swiney
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 5/6/05 8:27:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > writes:
> >>
> >>We don't learn much from the mistakes of the past if we keep on repeating
> >>them.
> >>
> >>One of the things we learn from history is that we *do* live in it, whether
> >>we like it or not.  Interesting that this thread coincides with VE Day
> >>tomorrow, when we remember the Allied victory over the Nazis, who murdered
> >>more than six million people because they were born Jewish, Rom, mentally
> >>retarded or gay.  This thread also coincides with the plan, reported
> >>yesterday, to exhume and autopsy the body of Emmett Till, and re-open that
> >>case.  Emmett Till was a black teenager, brutally murdered by racists in
> >>Mississippi in 1955, because he whistled at a white woman.  Bigotry begins
> >>with portraying fellow human beings as subhumans, to excuse stripping them
> >>of human rights.  One of the first steps toward dehumanizing people is
> >>turning them into crude jokes, caricatures--and bullying all who object.
> >>("Offended?  Oh, hey, we're just having a little bit of fun.  We don't mean
> >>anything by it.  Golly, you're hyper-sensitive.")  Watch that Jolson
> >>performance sometime and see if it really looks like an honestly
> >>warm-hearted tribute to Mother.  I hope nobody on the Klarinet list gets
> >>something like that for Mother's Day this Sunday.
> >>
> >>Lelia Loban
> >>Are you watching Big Brother?
> Bill Hausmann
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------Original Message-------

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