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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000052.txt from 2005/04

From: "dnleeson" <>
Subj: RE: [kl] Prokofiev's Overture (was: Concert Announcement)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:40:03 -0400

"Kike" is not a word that should be thrown into the pile or used
as a descriptor for this or any other set of circumstances. It
holds roughly the same place in negative nomenclature as
"nigger," "wop," and "chink."

Originally it had no negative connotation, which was also the
case with "wop," that a word that allegedly comes from the
Italian word "guappo," and was meant to refer to a strong,
powerful man used for heavy labor; i.e., "Get me some "guappos"
to set railroad ties," which swiftly became "I want six "wops" to
set the railroad ties."

Well, "kike" derives from the work "kikel" which means "circle."
And when Jews were asked to make an "x" so as to show their mark
(which is a very strange story since so few Jews were
illiterate), they would not do so because of its resemblance to
the cross. Instead, they made a "circle," or a "kikel," which
became shortened to a very negative and pejorative word.

It is not a word that I would think of using for anything, much
less as a subname for the Prokofieff (whose name I have never
been able to spell twice the same way).

Dan Leeson

-----Original Message-----
From: cpringle []
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [kl] Prokofiev's Overture (was: Concert

How about "Kike"? - a Jewish rep I once had in NY, told
me that "only a klutz pays gentile"!! any informed person will
know that our culture is Judeo-Christian and the Torah is
probably the worlds most basic book on Religion and Philosophy,
and the
dominant factor in civilization.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lelia Loban" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: [kl] Prokofiev's Overture (was: Concert Announcement)

> Sarah Elbaz wrote,
> >Be carful people not to fall into the trap of Nazi
> >terminology.
> >Its the same as using the terms - 1/4 Jew or half
> >Jew- such thing doesn't exsists. Same with Yid -
> >it only means Jew - the Nazis gave it many other
> >meanings but we shouldn't let them win.
> >Use Yid and Jew as much as you want - its ok.
> I understand the point you're making, and I agree, on a
> level, about not letting the Nazis win. However, I think there
must be
> some language differences between what's acceptable in Israel
and what's
> acceptable in the USA. I'm not talking about what "ought to"
> acceptable, but simply about what is or is not acceptable: In
the USA,
> when English is being spoken, "Yid" is a fighting word,
literally. Tough
> guys here call a Jew a Yid in order to start a fight. Though
friends in
> the USA may sometimes toss an insulting word around in private
as a weird
> form of bonding, I would never use that particular word, even
with my
> husband, because I'd be afraid that calling him a Yid, even in
jest, even
> after 35 years of a good marriage, could erode the
relationship. I'm in
> mid- 50s, have lived all over the USA, and have never in my
life heard the
> word Yid used in public here as anything but an insult. I've
never heard
> it used by anybody except a bigot or a Jewish comedian making
fun of a
> bigot.
> People here do use the word "Jew" all the time, but the red
flag on that
> word is that "Jew" is a noun meaning a Jewish person and
shouldn't be used
> as any other part of speech in the USA. In the USA, most of
those other
> usages are highly offensive, such as, "He jewed him down on the
> "She has those Jew ideas." I have heard "Jew" used casually as
> adjective by Jews in one limited, humorous context: my Jewish
husband and
> his family sometimes refer to "Jew food," as in, "Where can we
get a
> corned beef sandwich in this town? Is there any place around
here that
> serves Jew food?" I don't use that expression, because I'm not
Jewish and
> I want to be sure I'm not misinterpreted.
> Lelia Loban
> "I always pass on good advice. It is the only thing to do with
it. It is
> never any use to oneself."
> --Oscar Wilde, _An Ideal Husband_.
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