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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000509.txt from 2004/08

From: Tony Pay <>
Subj: RE: [kl] The making of K. 581
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:04:30 -0400

On 17 Aug, "dnleeson" <> wrote:

> The authority for the disappearance of the manuscripts of both 622 and 581
> is found in a letter from Constanze dated 1799. By that date, both
> manuscript were said (by her) to be either stolen or pawned. (I put that
> part in my book. You read it. I didn't make it up. It is what is found
> in every book on the history of those two works.) In either case, neither
> manuscript entered into the publication process which took place in 1803.

Where did I suggest that the *manuscripts* did enter into it? You're right,
I did ask on what authority the manuscripts were said to have disappeared,
and your quote from Constanze constitutes a reply to that.

But the AMZ reviewer said that he had a score in front of him.

You said that the first edition came from the parts. Clearly, if the AMZ
reviewer had a score, it was likely to be a copy -- but the fact that he had
a score casts doubt on your assertion that there were no scores.

> I should add that there is almost nothing that Constanze says that I
> believe, but you asked for the basis of the assertion that neither first
> edition came from the manuscripts. Do you have any information that says it
> happened another way?

No, I have no information that it came from the manuscripts. But there is,
in the AMZ article, evidence that the first edition could have been produced
from a score.

Where is *your* evidence that it didn't?

Not, actually, that I find any of this particularly interesting. You quite
often write things I find generative, and those I use.

In this case, dubious stuff about how what we have in our version of K581 is
'probably crap' helps me not in the least.

> After that, everything you say and everything I say is opinion.

No, it's argument. And in my case at least, it's very often, subsequently,

> Have a nice day.

No, I'll have a nice night, with any luck; after which I'll go tomorrow and
play the final rehearsal of Das Rheingold on period instruments with Sir
Simon Rattle, in a performance that I expect, on the basis of the rehearsals,
to be an intensely moving, integrative and above all, humanising experience.

You can listen to it on Radio Three on Thursday on the BBC3 website:

_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339

... Your cat's missing? Have you checked my bumper?

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