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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000485.txt from 2004/08

From: "dnleeson" <>
Subj: RE: [kl] Mozart`s 'Ave Verum Corpus'
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:18:30 -0400

I don't know what you want me to do or say. Should I say,
"Wow!!! I never thought of that one."?

You can point out thematic affinities from now until a month from
Sunday, and you can reach conclusions about how they were copied
from this or that composition, but until you can prove it, all
you have is a container full of air.

Consider the first four notes of Handel's Hallelujah chorus, and
then contrast them with the theme from "Yes We Have No Bananas."
You cannot find a more perfect thematic duplication, but does it
mean anything?

Dan Leeson

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Tkal []
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: [kl] Mozart`s 'Ave Verum Corpus'

Dan Leeson wrote:
> Be muy guest. There is a very extensive technical paper on
> the subject of accidental thematic duplication, both by one
> composer who creates two works, and two separate composers
> each creating a work of his/her own. See the 1995, Mozart
> Jahrbuch, pp. 111-153, "Franz Xaver Süßmayr and the Mozart
> Requiem." Also see: 1998, International Journal of
> Musicology, Frankfurt am Main, Vol 7, pp. 241-57: "The Engima


How about the resounding beginning of the 2nd movement of
Beethoven's 9th
symphony, completed in 1824 (descending octave followed by
another a fourth
lower), eerily similar to the beginning of the 3rd movement of
Dvoøák's 9th
symphony from 1893. Ancient plagiarism at work? Isn't it hard to
Dvoøák would not have been quite familiar with Beethoven's 9th?

Erik Tkal

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