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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000669.txt from 2003/06

From: "LARISA DUFFY & DAVID DOW" <DUFFYL@-----.CA>
Subj: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:36:04 -0400

DePeyer and Wright are the cream of the crop....not sure what the criteria
for in tuneness is for some folks....generally speaking I have never heard
Depeyer or Wright play badly....as for Leister there is some really inspired
playing in the catologue especially his Amadeus Quartet Brahms A minor
Quintet record....a really nice record... I would rate Leister as one of the
all time great symphonic players alongside Drucker and DePeyer....-----
Original Message -----
From: "Dan Leeson" <leeson0@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet

> I played with De Peyer about 25 years ago and he certainly was not out
> of tune then. He is a classy player and suggesting that he plays out of
> tune is unworthy of Brash.
>
> DNL
>
> Matthew Lloyd wrote:
> > I have never heard anyone claim De Peyer is out of tune. Anyone else
> > think he is? I don't.
> >
> > Matthew
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brash, Alexander [mailto:BrashA@-----.org]
> > Sent: 20 June 2003 16:06
> > To: 'klarinet@-----.org'
> > Subject: RE: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
> >
> > Exactly! I hope there wasn't confusion on my previous post, I'm a
> > vibrato
> > supporter so to speak. Everything Leister has ever touched is deadly
> > boring.
> > I mean, horrible. He has a decent technique, but nothing that most
> > conservatory grad students don't have, and he never does ANYTHING.
> > Someone
> > point me to a recording of his where he makes a phrase. He also plays
> > badly,
> > badly out of tune, as does the whole Berlin clarinet section when he was
> > there. They think if they play out of tune together it's magically in
> > tune.
> > I honestly don't understand how people like him get big jobs...also
> > people
> > like Gervase de Peyer, who has a tone akin to the kazoo sound that we
> > produced when we're first learning the instrument, besides being
> > unacceptably out of tune all of the time. Like, out of tune that your
> > high
> > school band director would kick you out for. And he's a technical
> > cripple to
> > boot. Yet he has a rather large discography, a lot of it on respectable
> > labels. How is this possible? Why do such bad players get good recording
> > deals? Why are so many great musicians barely making ends meet?
> >
> > Alexander Michael Brash
> > Education Dept, New York Philharmonic
> > 10 Lincoln Center Plaza, 5th Floor
> >
> > phone (212) 875 - 5735
> > cell (646) 284 - 0439
> > email brasha@-----.org
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LARISA DUFFY & DAVID DOW [mailto:DUFFYL@-----.CA]
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 2:54 PM
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
> >
> > What is sound but vibration?
> >
> > I am not quite sure why vibrato is such a problem....the players who
> > are
> > unable to perform with vibrato who work in any orchestra must find it
> > strange that the flutes vibrate, the oboes too, the bassoons, and the
> > trumpet, plus the strings.
> >
> > I am not sure if the word tradition can be used to donate a current
> > school
> > of thought. Its kind of like the apples and oranges thing. however,
> > generally speaking a dull, routine straight sound can become very
> > monotonous. Isn't it up to the player to use whatever means at his/her
> > disposal to create musical interest...or if the conductor doesn't care
> > to do
> > dynamics and expression
> >
> > ' then why the heck would one consider trying to go a NOTCH above the
> > monotones of straight sound? ' Some of the finest players in the world
> > don't use vibrato and some of the finest players use it. Case over.
> >
> > Leister and a few other Oehler system players can be very boring. The
> > last
> > 3 versions leister has done of the Brahms Quintet are total replicas of
> > each other. At the same time I think players like James Campbell and
> > Thea
> > King never get a fair shake so to speak....
> >
> > I also think that Drucker is a god.
> >
> > My old teacher Harold Wright said something very interesting...."The
> > worst
> > thing a clarinet player can do is to play with a bit of feeling."---Of
> > course this was a joke....mainly because there is such a huge variance
> > among
> > clarinetists about what defines a good playing style. Wright also said
> > there is always alot of advice out there, and most of bad. A player
> > generally has to come up with there own ideas about the sound and way
> > they
> > play.
> >
> > There are a lot of bad conductors too....I have never heard a word about
> > a
> > conductor telling me to use a straight sound. I have heard more ask for
> > vibrato instead!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message ----
> > From: "Brash, Alexander" <BrashA@-----.org>
> > To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
> >
> >
> > We handle the problem like this: playing in an AMERICAN "tradition." As
> > Stravinsky said in his Charles Eliot Norton lectures at Harvard:
> >
> >
> > 'A real tradition is not the relic of a past irretrievably gone; it is a
> > living force that animates and informs the present. (...) Far from
> > implying
> > the repetition of what has been, tradition presupposes the reality of
> > what
> > endures. (...) Tradition ensures the continuity of creation. (...) A
> > renewal
> > is fruitful only when it goes hand in hand with tradition.'
> >
> > I think this quote outlines very well (among other things) the spirit of
> > the
> > American clarinet. We take established schools and traditions and let
> > them
> > inform us as we continuously evolve. This is why the principal players
> > in
> > our orchestras are not deadly boring musicians, ie Leister. And speaking
> > of
> > "relics of the past irretrievably gone"...ummm where are the women in
> > your
> > orchestras? I know they're trickling in, but I wonder how female German
> > clarinetists feel about the male dominated German school. Oh wait! I
> > know
> > what they do! They become soloists instead and then come over here and
> > play!
> >
> >
> > You wrote:
> > Seriously, I think we are missing something, historically speaking. Over
> > here it would be totally unthinkable to use vibrato (at least in
> > Austro/German chamber music) and I must say that it DOES sound FAR
> > better
> > than the less restrictive performance practice...
> >
> > Please prove to me it sounds far better. See Mr. Cohler's article for
> > some
> > discussion of his own experiments with non musicians, and asking them
> > which
> > tone quality they prefer. Let me see something similar from you.
> >
> > By the way, I can think of several great places to shove my freedom
> > horn.
> >
> >
> > Alexander Michael Brash
> > Education Dept, New York Philharmonic
> > 10 Lincoln Center Plaza, 5th Floor
> >
> > phone (212) 875 - 5735
> > cell (646) 284 - 0439
> > email brasha@-----.org
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ferengizâde daniêl shawqy [mailto:rab@-----.de]
> > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:21 AM
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
> >
> > No!
> > Clarinet and vibrato! How could a civilized Conductor tolerate such a
> > gross
> > abuse of the noblest of all wind instruments? I think in Germany you'd
> > get
> > lynched if you'd dare to try even the most subtle vibrato.
> > Yet,
> > the great Muehlfeld (for whom Brahms wrote his late parts) was reported
> > to
> > have played with more vibrato than the cellist of the Joachim
> > quartet....
> >
> > Seriously, I think we are missing something, historically speaking. Over
> > here it would be totally unthinkable to use vibrato (at least in
> > Austro/German chamber music) and I must say that it DOES sound FAR
> > better
> > than the less restrictive performance practice... maybe one day we'll
> > have
> > to acknowledge that the modern Austrogerman Clarinet and it's playing
> > tradition is in fact a different instrument and should be given a
> > different
> > name or rather the French/Italian instrument should be called "claroe",
> > "clarott", "claroon" "clareek" or something like that...
> > BTW, may I ask how US players handle the problem of playing an
> > instrument
> > that is either French or German in tradition (i.e. evil in any case) --
> > Did
> > you have to rename it "freedom horn" or did someone come up with a new
> > "redneck"-system?
> > Regards,
> > danyel
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Deidre Calarco
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
> >
> >
> > On 6/18/03 1:48 PM, "Jimmy Lee" <jrlaudio@-----.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>a conductor that does not want clarinets to use vibrator is a
> >>loser
> >
> >
> > ROFL
> >
> > I agree. It's none of the conductor's business if the clarinetists like
> > to
> > use vibrators. That's personal!
> >
> > (back to lurking)
> >
> > -Deidre
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> **Dan Leeson **
> **leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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