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Klarinet Archive - Posting 001077.txt from 2002/06

From: Jeremy A Schiffer <>
Subj: Re: [kl] Music vs. drug testing
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:38:57 -0400

On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, Alexander Brash wrote:

> Silly liberals,

what do you know about me? nothing. in the sense of locke and kant, yes,
i'm a liberal. i believe that individual rights must be protected above
all else, so pardon me for standing up for the liberties our constiution
guaranteed us. in terms of the american political spectrum, i don't belong
to a political party and consider myself completely independent. but
thanks for the slur.

> > From: Jeremy A Schiffer <>
> > Reply-To:
> > Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:51:59 -0400 (EDT)
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [kl] Music vs. drug testing
> >
> > as a sociology major on the reasons behind moral
> > legislation
> aside from the fact that you're all ruining the country, the above statement
> is ridiculous. The reasons behind "moral legislation" eh? I challenge you to
> find ANY piece of legislation that isn't a form of moral legislation. All
> law is legislated morality, duh, sociology major eh?.

okay, i didn't give the working definition of moral legislation, so i can
see why you think that. moral legislation refers to laws enacted in order
to conform society to the dominant beliefs of the majority. typically,
this is done by identifying behavior associated with minority groups and
then outlawing said behavior. as was the case with the drug laws, alcohol
prohibition and the anti-immigration laws. this is distinguishable from
laws against things like murder, rape and robbery, which are considered
absolute laws.

ever since the neolithic revolution (we'll say 5000bce, for the sake of
argument), there is substantial evidence of continual recreational use of
cannabis sativa. throughout that time, the first known effort to prohibit
use of said substance came at the beginning of the 20th century ce. in
other words, of the seven thousand years of known use, it has been
prohibited for less than 100. clearly, then, prohibition is not the
"natural" nor universal state of affairs for treatment of cannibis use. on
the other hand, murder and robbery have been prohibited by nearly every
society since the neolithic revolution; hence, the absolute nature.

> You think that you
> smoking a joint isn't the worst crime against humanity? fine, but you need
> to remember that when you go BUY a joint (unless you grow it yourself), you
> have to think about where your money is going! Maybe it's not straight into
> Osama's pocket as these commercials would have you believe, but you know
> what, there's a HUGE HOLE 3 BLOCKS from where I GO TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY, and
> if even one penny of support for acts of terror came from your joint, you
> should, frankly, go to hell.

talk about a non-sequitor. no, there is not a shred of evidence that one
penny of marijuana sales has ever gone towards terrorism (in the
definition used by george bush). heroin is widely known to be trafficked
by terrorists, as is cocaine. even so, most terrorism funded drugs go to
asia and europe, not the united states, which is supplied by mexico and south

but what does that have to do with holes in the ground? if you want more
money for government, lobby for legalization and regulation of cannabis.
if the government took taxes on every joint smoked in this country, it
would provide enough money to pave the roads in gold. the only thing
prohibition does is create a self-sustaining military-industrial complex
dedicated to enforcing laws predicated on outright racism. as long as our
government leads the worldwide push for drug criminalization, it
artificially inflates prices and provides the motive for trafficking. if
drugs were legal, the price structure would collapse and deprive groups
like the (former) taliban, not to mention of FARC of colombia, of much of
their income.

of course, if you want to really discuss the core causes of terrorism, i'd
be happy to point out that all of our tax dollars (i mean the tax
dollars we all pay; clearly, not every penny of our tax dollars) go to
support dozens of illiberal, illegitimate regimes which are propped up by
the united states in order to protect our oil interests. i could even
point out that in 1953 our government, along with the british, overthrew
premier mossadegh of iran to prevent them from nationalizing their own oil
industry. as a result, we installed a bloody, heinous dictator to oppress
what once was the most open and western muslim country in the world. and
then we wonder why they hate us...

> i just realized that this has nothing to do
> with music...but people like you just piss me off. You're a disgrace, as are
> those who agree with you, and that's the last I'll say about it on this
> list.

apparently, i'm a disgrace because i do research, analyze data, and hold
informed opinions. you have my sincerest apologies for not being an
irrational bigot, and for taking pride in being educated. i provide reason
and rhetoric, and you provide slurs and ad hominem attacks. i'll let the
klarinet list decide for themselves who is on the correct side of this


Jeremy A. Schiffer
AcIS Security Administrator
Columbia University
AcIS Nextel *75

Please direct all computer security related queries to


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