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Klarinet Archive - Posting 000398.txt from 2001/07

From: "David C. Kumpf" <dkumpf@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] Jumping on the Bandwagon - or jumpingoff....Mouthpieces and Ideals
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 21:38:14 -0400

Let me first clarify why I thought Roger's musings might have been directed
to me, which I did not do in my earlier response to Roger's original post on
this topic:

1. In a series of messages, I had asked a number of questions about
mouthpiece quality control and made a number of speculations. The first such
question was in response to something Roger originally wrote regarding
mouthpieces.

2. I did not, in those messages, identify my reasons for asking the
questions, nor for making the speculations.

3. The subject line of Roger's message included "mouthpieces" and therefore
seemed to be motivated from that discussion.

Despite what anyone might have read into the tone of my message, I wasn't
angry at Roger then, nor am I now. I DID want him to clarify the intended
target. I also wanted to establish that if I was that target, what my
motives were and what my stand is - in direct response to his musings. If I
failed to make that clear, that is my problem, and I'd be happy to add
clarification where needed.

I agree that there are general problems with communications through an email
forum such as this, but understanding those, and trying to devise solutions,
is very much related to my interest in the information design problem. I
understand that sometimes walking away makes sense; for myself and this
particular situation, I don't see the need, because I never really saw this
as a flame war, just a way to clarify positions.

Hope this helps.

Dave Kumpf
mailto:dkumpf@-----.com
http://www.optimetra.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: stewart kiritz [mailto:kiritz@-----.net]
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 3:13 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Jumping on the Bandwagon - or
> jumpingoff....Mouthpieces and Ideals
>
>
> Trust me. It seems that it is almost impossible to sort these
> things out on
> an internet forum. Personally, I have found it best just to take
> a time out
> if I feel flamed, rather than engage in a "who meant what" type of thing.
>
> There are great things about typewritten internet communication.
> But also,
> there is something inherent in the process that seems to make conflict,
> whenever it emerges, simply escalate. The time delay, the unidensional
> aspect of the communication (just typewritten words, no visual,
> no immediate
> interaction, who knows)? Sometimes this escalation, with the best of
> intentions of all concerned, reaches epic proportions, and even results in
> the death of a forum. I'm sure that wouldn't happen here. But
> speaking as
> someone who has witnessed the seemingly inexorable unfolding of
> this process
> several times, my wish for all concerned is disengagement until
> things cool
> off.
>
> Stewart Kiritz
> licensed psychologist and unlicensed amateur clarinetist
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Bush" <rbushidioglot@-----.com>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Jumping on the Bandwagon - or jumpingoff....Mouthpieces
> and Ideals
>
>
> > The following comments (at the bottom of the post) by Roger Garrett
> > deserve a greater, and possibly, more honest reply than the following
> > when he replying to Neil Leupold's post, which was:
> >
> > Is this meant to be clever? What's your point?
> >
> > Next, David Kumpf reacted with:
> >
> > Or perhaps, to whom is this addressed, Roger? The natural response, of
> > course, is "if the shoe fits, wear it." That seems pretty evasive - if
> > you
> > have a problem with me, be direct about it. (Clip)
> >
> > Roger's reply was:
> >
> > "David,
> >
> > As you can see, it was not addressed to anyone. It was musings on my
> > part. It came into my head and I typed it down. I didn't send it until
> > I
> > was sure it was not directed at anyone in particular.
> >
> > I don't have a problem with you at all. Why would I? You haven't said
> > anything that has upset me, and I don't know you except by way of the
> > list....." (Clip)
> >
> > So, Roger, you were just "musing," but had no one particular in mind?
> >
> > Such musings throws a guilt trip on anyone who wishes to participate, to
> > agree or disagree. This is intimidating. Do we want dialog in this
> > forum, or do we want what some, including myself, consider a lecture
> > wrapped as a thinly veiled allegory?
> >
> > Please, tell us who you had in mind when you wrote what you did "with no
> > one in mind." Without a more open disclosure of your motive, I must say,
> > I find your "musings" most distasteful.
> >
> > Respectfully, but nevertheless, quite upset,
> >
> > Richard Bush
> >
> >
> >
> > --- rgarrett@-----.edu wrote:
> > > When I was a young boy, there was a boy named Pat (last name withheld)
> > who
> > > always took advantage of other people's work. The work could be as
> > > insignificant as a discovery regarding a better way to complete a
> > chore -
> > > or worse - it could be as significant as taking credit for someone
> > else's
> > > ideas and honest reporting. Pat had a habit (like most good
> > politicians!)
> > > of making claims that were based on speculation - jumping on the
> > bandwagon
> > > when it suited his needs and backing off when the fire got too hot.
> > >
> > > Pat succeeded in politics - making it to the House of Representatives
> > in
> > > Oregon before someone exposed his motives and he was relegated to
> > starting
> > > over. Last I heard, he was defending himself on the east coast for
> > > suspicion of inappropriate behavior in his political aspirations. Go
> > > figure. The guy just didn't ever take a stand unless it benefited
> > > himself. He progressed on the coattails of others. Look where it got
> > him.
> > >
> > > When truth and ideas are overshadowed by an unquenched motivation to
> > make a
> > > profit - or, worse, to become important in other people's eyes, a
> > person
> > > has to stand back and ask themselves, what is the truth? What
> > information
> > > have I been given that will support that truth? What exactly is this
> > > person's motivation for saying what they have said?
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Roger Garrett
> >
> >
> >
> > rgarrett@-----.edu wrote:
> >
> > > When I was a young boy, there was a boy named Pat (last name withheld)
> > > who
> > > always took advantage of other people's work. The work could be as
> > > insignificant as a discovery regarding a better way to complete a
> > > chore -
> > > or worse - it could be as significant as taking credit for someone
> > > else's
> > > ideas and honest reporting. Pat had a habit (like most good
> > > politicians!)
> > > of making claims that were based on speculation - jumping on the
> > > bandwagon
> > > when it suited his needs and backing off when the fire got too hot.
> > >
> > > Pat succeeded in politics - making it to the House of Representatives
> > > in
> > > Oregon before someone exposed his motives and he was relegated to
> > > starting
> > > over. Last I heard, he was defending himself on the east coast for
> > > suspicion of inappropriate behavior in his political aspirations. Go
> > > figure. The guy just didn't ever take a stand unless it benefited
> > > himself. He progressed on the coattails of others. Look where it got
> > > him.
> > >
> > > When truth and ideas are overshadowed by an unquenched motivation to
> > > make a
> > > profit - or, worse, to become important in other people's eyes, a
> > > person
> > > has to stand back and ask themselves, what is the truth? What
> > > information
> > > have I been given that will support that truth? What exactly is this
> > > person's motivation for saying what they have said?
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Roger Garrett
> > >
> > > Roger Garrett
> > > Clarinet Professor
> > > Director, Symphonic Winds
> > > Illinois Wesleyan University
> > > School of Music
> > > Bloomington, IL 61702-2900
> > > Phone: (309) 556-3268
> > > Fax: (309) 556-3121
> > >
> > > "A man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he
> > > describes
> > > another's."
> > > Jean Paul Richter (1763-1825)
> > >
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>
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